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  • #46
    Are abilities still tied to elemental aspect?

    The Larceny charm is key'd for Earth, but Larceny isn't associated with Earth generally. Is it that Larceny is a Caste ability for Water Aspects, but an Earth DB could also treat this Charm as a caste one? But the Survival one is key'd for Wood, and there'd be no need to state that if it were natively Wood.

    Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
    I personally really liked it, but on a re-read confused fluff with crunch. I'd clocked it as "the thing you're touching is now your ear", which Wii allow the DB to hear round corners, up floors etc. But it's not. I sense a house-rule coming on if it reaches print like that.
    Being able to hear as though the barrier wasn't there would allow you to hear through floors and around corners.


    Come and rock me Amadeus.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Fata-Ku View Post
      How does "hearing as though it wasn't there" not allow you to hear around corners or up floors?
      Because the distance is still there. If you're at the bottom of a thirty-foot stone tower wanting to hear the whispered conversation going on at the top, the charm as written won't help. But what I thought it did (make the material act as your ears) places your heating much closer to the source, effectively enhancing your hearing as well as removing barriers to it.


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      • #48
        Originally posted by hippokrene View Post
        What does the Earth/Air/Water/Heart keyword actually do?
        Vance says in post 31 that that is information for the next preview.

        My speculation is that Elemental Aura will have a certain notion of needing to keep elemental energy accumulated around oneself balanced in a way that doesn't cause problems, but could also be built up in a manner that has benefits.


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        • #49
          Originally posted by Fata-Ku View Post
          Also it's not really fair to compare it to Keen Hearing Tech. Keen Hearing is a second charm, Deep-Listening Palm is a first; Sensory Acuity Prana (a first Awareness charm) doesn't boost your ability to hear through things (beyond doubling 9s).
          I'm not saying it should be as powerful as KH&T, but it falls, way, way short. Even if we compare against Sensory Acuity Prana, SAP is the same cost, but is reflexive, covers all five senses, boosts JB rolls, and with any reasonable Awareness pool I would expect Double-9s to get me to hear through a wall with some ability. KH&T is one charm deeper in the tree, but does everything DLP palm does, at 2m cheaper, reflexive, plus auto-succeed on diff 2 rolls, gives -1 diff, +1 auto-success, boosts even further with a relevant specialty, and applies all of those benefits to touch as well. Yes, KH&T should be more powerful, both for being a Solar charm and for being one deeper in the tree, but that just feels like way too much.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by hippokrene View Post
            Are abilities still tied to elemental aspect?

            The Larceny charm is key'd for Earth, but Larceny isn't associated with Earth generally. Is it that Larceny is a Caste ability for Water Aspects, but an Earth DB could also treat this Charm as a caste one? But the Survival one is key'd for Wood, and there'd be no need to state that if it were natively Wood.
            From what I understand, while Abilities are still associated with Aspects, Charm trees for an Ability can have Charms aligned to different Aspects.


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            • #51
              Originally posted by WhirlwindMonk
              Hm, I have mixed feelings here. On the one hand, minus a few nitpicks, the charms are all pretty clear in what they're supposed to do, and the difference between fluff and crunch is very clear, which is a huge positive. We also see some [Ability] 3, [Essence] 2 charms, which I don't think happened much, if at all, in the Solar charmset, which is a nice design space to hit.
              That's a very good point. I often feel that Exalted characters tend to be a bit min-maxed, all 5s and 0s, and it can be a bit ridiculous. This is encouraged by various things, but one of them is that so many charms need 4 or 5 in the ability, even charms near the beginning of the tree. Obviously you ought to expect 5s for charms deep into the tree, but I'd like to see characters who have 3 in an ability, and 2-3 charms, because having 3 in an ability is actually very high, as people in Creation go.

              Arguably it maybe doesn't make so much sense for Solars: if Solar charms represent Solar arete, and are extensions of their abilities, then maybe it does make sense that you can't, say, run on water unless you're a really good athlete.
              But DB charms are (while still having an aspect of arete of course) more being able to do things in a supernatural (elemental) way. So it maybe fits more for a DB who's a bit more keen-eared than average to also be able to hear through walls.*

              Though admittedly a lot of these example charms still require 5s, so we'll see.

              *I know no-one else seems to have mentioned it, but the fact that DB charms all seem to be allowing you to do something humans can't do, rather than doing something humans can kind of do but much better, is something I'm very happy to see.

              If that's the case amongst most DB charms, I'm seriously tempted to retire my 375xp Solar and play a 375xp Dragonblood instead.


              "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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              • #52
                Originally posted by hippokrene View Post
                Are abilities still tied to elemental aspect?

                The Larceny charm is key'd for Earth, but Larceny isn't associated with Earth generally. Is it that Larceny is a Caste ability for Water Aspects, but an Earth DB could also treat this Charm as a caste one? But the Survival one is key'd for Wood, and there'd be no need to state that if it were natively Wood.
                While they said they'd explain some of this stuff later, Vance did, I think, say previously that the Aspects had the same abilities as 2nd ed (in response to someone asking if MA would be Earth-aspected like in 1st ed).
                Which implies that the xp and bp cost of ability dots at least are still tied to elemental aspect. But maybe the charms are not?
                Or maybe it's something like you favour all the charms in your aspect's ability and all the charms in your aspect?
                Or maybe you favour (as in cost) the charms in your ability, and the element of the charm is related to something else entirely?

                Originally posted by Robert Vance
                Part 2 will discuss the Elemental Aura mechanic that all these aspect keywords tie into, while Part 3 will discuss Elemental Signature Charms.
                This makes me wonder if the aspect keywords are related to anima banners/flare. It would seem a bit complex to have an "Elemental Aura" and a seperate anima flare system.

                Hmmm, rampant speculation time? Maybe charms in your aspect don't flare your anima, and those out-of-aspect do? Or maybe vise-versa!
                That's probably a bit silly though.


                "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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                • #53
                  How about: Charms with your aspect contribute to your anima and DB animas are more powerful/useful than last edition?


                  Come and rock me Amadeus.

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                  • #54
                    I'd like "You may purchase charms of your aspect as if your Essence was 1 higher"

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Tiresias View Post

                      It's very situational, but if you spend a lot of time in different wilderness environments, or your Wits + Survival pool is bigger than your Intelligence + Lore pool, or you want to be able to introduce facts more than once per scene, it's pretty decent.
                      Also depends on how the Lore and Survival dice adders work.

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                      • #56
                        Having opened with some critique, I do want to second the statement that it's cool to be able to see some idea of where DBs are going, and I really appreciate presenting some of the stuff (and even some systems!) here for public opinion. That's a cool thing.

                        I'll also second that the cleaner language is a welcome change, and a good sign for DBs as a whole. This is, overall, pretty encouraging.

                        It does seem like some of the problem with the Survival Charm is just the extreme vagueness as to what Survival can actually do, at what difficulty, with what degree of player input. I'll agree with Whirlwindmonk, here: I see some value, but it looks like a Charm I'd rate pretty hard as a speedbump, given the way I've always assumed Survival stuff was handled. For a ST who was much more restrictive as to what Survival could and couldn't do, it'd probably be more useful. As others have noted, though, STs still get veto rights over fact declarations; this is still a, "Hey, with four successes, can I say I find...?" - and in almost all situations I can think of, that's something I'd let them do with Survival already.

                        On a more positive note, as others have said, embedding your sword in a physical object for safekeeping is really, really cool, and opens a lot of fun possibilities.


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                        • #57
                          I'm not sure that it's a problem with Survival per se as it is that different tables have different assumptions for narrative authority.

                          I've been in games where I can roll Wits+Skullduggery and a high success means I can say my PC knows of a chopshop nearby that's open. Heck, where I can say, "My PC has 4 in Skullduggery; she probably knows a few chopshops around the city. Is there one nearby?" and the answer will reliably be 'yes.'

                          I've also been in games where the GM decides all these things and you can't add anything. Just roll to see if you know of what's already there.

                          How powerful the Charm is depends on what you consider normal for your table.


                          Come and rock me Amadeus.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Irked View Post
                            Having opened with some critique, I do want to second the statement that it's cool to be able to see some idea of where DBs are going, and I really appreciate presenting some of the stuff (and even some systems!) here for public opinion. That's a cool thing.
                            Thank you! If there wasn't any criticism, that's when I'd be worried.


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                            • #59
                              So this is all pretty fantastic!

                              Firstly I'll agree with wizard, it's great to see more DB charms being straight up supernatural stuff, which good because I've always been a bit suspicious of the line "you'll know a DB charm because it's not a Solar charm" which is incredibly vague and often very poorly explained. Even if the effect is very similar, the theme and subtle mechanical differences help.

                              Also guys, remember that essence 1 DB charms are as weak as exalted charms ever get. They're supposed to be kind of underwhelming, just giving you a little boost or edge here and there. Now what you robably CAN do with them is what Solars do with their charms, and combo them into something huge. It's just when Solars do it they kill a whole wild hunt instantly, or something, whereas when DBs do it, if they work together, they might be able to fight Octavian or something epic.

                              Again though, this is AWESOME and I like what I see a lot!

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Darkuwa View Post
                                I'd like "You may purchase charms of your aspect as if your Essence was 1 higher"
                                That's simple and straightforward. Which is why I'd have never thought of it.


                                Come and rock me Amadeus.

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