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  • You Don't Have to Join the Silver Pact…

    Originally posted by TDS View Post
    Will the Lunar book make playing a Casteless Lunar or a Lunar that dislikes the Silver Pact viable? I always felt that as a group defined by their individuality and adaptability, everyone being part of the same organisation and sharing the same grudges and enemies didn't make too much sense.
    It makes plenty of sense when you recall that they're being actively hunted. It's hard not to "share grudges" against the guys using destiny itself to track you down for the sake of murdering you.

    So, no, strictly speaking, you don't have to join the Silver Pact, but regardless, you're gonna share their enemies. You don't have a choice. That option disappeared as soon as Luna kissed you on the brow and whispered her blessing in your ear, because even if you don't wanna destroy the Realm, you don't wanna get destroyed by them.
    Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 05-11-2017, 02:18 AM.

  • #2
    I think the core mentions that most Lunars are at least part of the Silver Pact for a little while. Mostly as a training thing, so like spending the first year as a member because the Lunar who's been teaching you the basics of your abilities, lest you do something stupid and get yourself killed pitifully, is a member. After that the way to core puts it seems more like a case of a bunch people working on the same project and have just sort of agreed to help out if another needs it and not screw eachother over.

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    • #3
      Consider Zion, from the Matrix films. You might decide, "Hey, fuck these guys and their weird dance orgies" after they free you from your tube, but regardless of whether you side with them or not, the Machines are coming for you, and getting some support and training ain't too bad.
      Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 05-11-2017, 04:42 PM. Reason: Italicized "Matrix."

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      • #4
        Really, following the logic established by the corebook, it would be odd for the Silver Pact to really be an organisation at all, rather than a, you know, pact; an agreement among people who have a common purpose, which it is still possible to be while being quite different from one another, because that commonality has less to do with themselves and more to do with their enemy.

        Like, you can declare yourself an individual all you want, you're still going to be marked by the Wyld Hunt.

        ​Besides, the core has already clearly established groundwork for Lunars whose association with the Pact is minimal to non-existent, for anybody who would have actually bothered to read it, whether it's the mention of how numerous Lunars channel their passions into personal interests, or the reference to how the Pact is perfectly willing to wait for long periods until new Lunars become worldly enough to see the benefits of helping out against their common enemy.

        ​I still don't think this will translate much to being casteless, if the benefits of caste are significant and it's not really portrayed as something carrying an obligation. Honestly, I've never entirely gotten what the attraction of being casteless was supposed to be.


        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
        Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
        https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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        • #5
          All Lunars who aren´t confident enough to be able to avoid the Realm´s forces are likely to be allied to the pact, but not necessarily members. If the pact does require a more than token contribution to fighting the Realm, there may be many Lunars who either cannot spare much resources or have other priorities.

          It would be hilarious if the Lunars end up being the one splat where all are members of a monolithic organization.
          Last edited by 4uk4ata; 05-11-2017, 04:50 AM.

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          • #6
            How I have decided to handle it for my 2.5-ish game is that the Silver Pact never has reached a three digit member count. More often than not, they are hovering around 50-75 members. Those are the ones with a honor system and the like. Quite a few Lunars think the Silver Pact are a bunch of fanatic crazies.

            Then there is a network of Lunars. Thanks to the need, or benefits, of the Moonsilver tattoos, most Lunars more than a hundred years old knows at least a handful of other Lunars. These are the lower case silver pact. Some uses trappings from the Silver Pact, like adding specific meanings to the tattoos or using Claw Speek, some don't.

            In my mind, the general Lunar population was more positive toward the Silver Pact in the pre Great Contagion era, than after. Because the worst thing that had happened to the Lunars up to GC was the Usurpation and the Wyld Hunts. Having a great plague and Wyld incursion wiping out 90% of all living things (and also leading to most of the "elder" to Exalt because the former host died during the GC, so they have personal experiences of the period) makes a lot of Lunars thinking the Silver Pact are barking up the wrong tree.

            Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
            ​I still don't think this will translate much to being casteless, if the benefits of caste are significant and it's not really portrayed as something carrying an obligation. Honestly, I've never entirely gotten what the attraction of being casteless was supposed to be.
            While I don't know what it was supposed to be, I have a player that will start casteless.

            The reason the player made the decision to go with casteless is because of a few things. First of, the player can't decide on what caste to pick. Then, the player don't want to know a lot, or have to learn a lot, about the setting before starting (and the tattooist would most likely know quite a bit). It also gives an answer to the question of why the character hangs out with a bunch of Solars, instead of staying with other Lunars to learn from them.

            I have also reduced the risk from "normal shape shifting" (not using any of the supplemental charms/knacks that modifies the shape), so it is a bit safer to be casteless.

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            • #7
              Isn't there a large chunk of Creation where the Realm has little or no presence? What percentage of Lunars are created in a place where a Wyld Hunt coming after them is a serious threat? Even in areas where the Wyld Hunt might operate, how difficult is it simply to not announce to all and sundry that you're an Anathema?

              I mean, you're a Lunar. You'd think they'd be one of the best at being inconspicuous if they feel like it.


              Come and rock me Amadeus.

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              • #8
                Just remember to include that nasty bit of permanent Limit and issues with Chimeraism.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by hippokrene View Post
                  Isn't there a large chunk of Creation where the Realm has little or no presence?
                  The Wyld Hunt is the duty of all Dragon Blooded.

                  Originally posted by hippokrene
                  how difficult is it simply to not announce to all and sundry that you're an Anathema?
                  ​Probably not too hard; it just requires you to never do anything interesting.

                  Originally posted by hippokrene
                  I mean, you're a Lunar. You'd think they'd be one of the best at being inconspicuous if they feel like it.
                  ​I think the system has to afford some level of capacity for telling that what you're looking at is a Lunar.

                  ​Besides, some of these details don't necessarily make for a convincing argument for Lunars evading conflict. I mean, the alternative to drawing the righteous ire of the Terrestrial and Sidereal Exalted is to live in hiding forever? Would there not be a number of Lunars who would take offence to that on principle? Especially if one of the common traits of them, and possibly a basis by which they're Chosen in the first place, being people who struggle against the constraints that others would place on them?


                  I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                  Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by hippokrene View Post
                    Isn't there a large chunk of Creation where the Realm has little or no presence? What percentage of Lunars are created in a place where a Wyld Hunt coming after them is a serious threat? Even in areas where the Wyld Hunt might operate, how difficult is it simply to not announce to all and sundry that you're an Anathema?

                    I mean, you're a Lunar. You'd think they'd be one of the best at being inconspicuous if they feel like it.
                    I think it's entirely plausible for Lunars to live on the rim of Creation, and if quiet enough, be mostly unmolested. They, however, don't make for very interesting stories, and Essence fever makes it unlikely for a young (read: PC) Lunar to manage this for long.

                    There are large swathes of Creation where the Realm has little presence, yes. But there are still Outcaste Dragon-Blood families and rulers, there are Sidereals, and the Realm is quite capable of projecting power into the Deep Threshold to kill a particularly elusive Lunar. If the Lunar actually acts against the powers that be in the region, it's likely the local potentate will call the Wyld Hunt.

                    This isn't to say a pack of Lunars can't prowl around the Threshold having fun without Terrestrials trying to crawl up their asses every other week. But at some point if the Lunars gain enough reputation or ruffle enough feathers, somebody is gonna snitch, ya know?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by videopete View Post
                      Just remember to include that nasty bit of permanent Limit and issues with Chimeraism.
                      AKA mechanics and setting lore that are, as best we know, not appearing in this edition.

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                      • #12
                        I believe this edition gives much more freedom as to where the Lunars may successfully establish themselves. They are not relegated to the rims of Creation to be successful.

                        Also, the Wyld Hunt is an aspect of most Dragon Blooded culture, not something inherent to Dragon Blooded nature and there would be nothing wrong in dpeciting particular or particular groups of Dragon Blooded who are either uninterested or unaware of this tradition.

                        The uniformity of Dragon Blooded "Anathema Policing" is frayed and fraying. This is a time of opportunity for those their (the Dragon Blooded's) institutions oppressed

                        The fact that game points towards a loss of Realm homogeneity and stability leads to intention that these aspects of the setting are more flexible and could/should be approached from varied angles.

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                        • #13
                          Lunars exist in this weird space where they are the most mercurial and unpredictable Exalts, and yet there is a very rigid and unyeilding perception of them. They must be part of the Silver Pact, Luna always visits each new Exalt, and the like.

                          Personally, I never understood why the latter was perceived as a good thing. I view Luna a lot like Yahtzee: being loved by her is as (if not more) dangerous than being hated by her. To me, Luna is the type who may think you're the hottest shit on toast ever, and in order to prove it goes and tattles on you to the local Wyld Hunt. If they end up killing you as a result...well, obviously she was wrong about you.


                          Have you ever read a Coik post before, man? lol
                          -Holden

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Coik View Post
                            Lunars exist in this weird space where they are the most mercurial and unpredictable Exalts, and yet there is a very rigid and unyeilding perception of them. They must be part of the Silver Pact, Luna always visits each new Exalt, and the like.

                            Personally, I never understood why the latter was perceived as a good thing. I view Luna a lot like Yahtzee: being loved by her is as (if not more) dangerous than being hated by her. To me, Luna is the type who may think you're the hottest shit on toast ever, and in order to prove it goes and tattles on you to the local Wyld Hunt. If they end up killing you as a result...well, obviously she was wrong about you.
                            Luna isn't supposed to be Adorjan.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

                              Luna isn't supposed to be Adorjan.
                              Or Kimbery.


                              I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.

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