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Edition for absurdly high-powered play

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  • #16
    Hmm, I think the basis for what you want already exists in Ex3. True, Solars have a Supernal so can access the essence 5 charms in their chosen field from the start, but that stuff only comes alive when you have the essence to fuel it properly. Another thing is that competence in several charm trees that only ridiculous amounts of xp can buy, especially if they synergize is very, very scary. All the raw power you need already exists, the only limit is xp, motes, wp and resets actually.

    So, you might have fewer (semi-)perfects, but if you have them all/a few for them, and perhaps some of those custom essence 6+ charms to more easily reset those perfects and the free full excellency charms you basically get your entirely new tier. Also add increased efficiency in the form of bigger mote/wp respiration and reduced costs.

    That, combined with the fact that your essence is used in plenty of calculations and you really do not need to inflate the dicepools to have elders who stand head and shoulder above the rest...


    • #17
      Thanks everyone for very informative answers.

      Originally posted by Phoenix_Kensai View Post
      You might be disappointed with the system if it's important that powerful beings be literally unkillable to anyone too far beneath them, but I would still encourage you to give it a look and try, and see what you think.
      No, actually I do not want powerful being to be literally unkillable but I would be happy if there were a wide hierarchy of characters where the differences in power between the strata of the hierarchy are overwhelming.

      One possible worry of mine was that Essence 6+ Charms might have been completely eliminated from the rules and would have to been reintroduced from the second edition or redesigned from the scratch. I am happy to learn that this is most likely not the case.
      Last edited by Lanic; 05-12-2017, 04:45 AM.


      • #18
        Here's the official stance on Essence 6+

        Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
        Essence 1-5 is the heart of the game. Elder Exalted might have an Essence 6+ Charm or two as unique, signature powers.


        • #19
          Originally posted by Lanic View Post

          Thank you for a very informative (even if dissatisfying) answer.

          I am curious about your opinion on the ST system. Generally, it seems to me that other than systems based on addition of results from multiple dice (like in Earthdawn or Star Wars d6) the systems that counts successes on multiple dice are much better scalable then systems based on linear tests (like in the large family of systems based on d100 or d20), since by throwing a large number of dice you get something that roughly resembles normal distribution so:
          - arbitrarily small outcomes are possible (but with decreasing probability as the stats grow)
          - arbitrarily large outcomes are possible (assuming we have some form of rerolls, like in Exalted)
          - the more dice, the more stable the results.

          So it seems that at its core the ST system should allow for a decent "scalability." Even more so in classic WoD where you could also manipulate the target number for a dice to count as a success, which gave you two parametres to control the probability distribution, so you could decide:
          - how difficult a given task should be,
          - how quickly should the outcomes stabilise as the stats grow.

          The reason why I ask is that reportedly Ex 3 is better than Ex 2 in almost every respect. I knew that one of the design goals was to address Elder issue. I was curious whether it affects the whole system so heavily that reintroducing Essence 6+ phenomena is impossible or can it simply modified without breaking totally everything.
          The thing about the ST system is that statistically even two or three dice is a huge advantage, but there is no floor. I've watched people with 30 dice pools lose to people with half that number, and I've seen someone with only three dice more just run roughshod over people.

          You're right of course about normal distribution, but if you want normalized integer generation, d100 soundly produces better results with less effort, ya know?

          The ST system was put together by people who wanted to focus less on rules and mechanical fidelity and more on story. Sometimes Werewolfs shred Vampires. Sometimes Vampires shred Werewovles. Most of the time neither of them really want that confrontation. The system does that well. It doesn't simulate reliably powerful characters capable of throwing down in a comic-book fashion.

          You can get some interesting results by playing with Target Numbers, true. I've just had better experiences with other systems in terms of creating those results. M&M is boring, but M&M's math works.

          I think the wider Ex3 vs Ex2 debate has come out of the echo chamber one-sidedly, but your personal design goals make Ex2 (preferably with 2.5 errata) a better fit. You want a game where the Elder Problem is a feature, not a bug. That's Ex2.

          Assuming you play by the default Ex3 rules (stats capped at 5) adding unique E6+ powers doesn't break the game, assuming the powers themselves aren't broken. I would be worried about using Ex2 techniques within the E6+ Ex3 space to create that gap. For example, reintroducing a generalized Infinite Mastery would shatter the combat engine.


          • #20
            In my chronicles i still keep things from first edition, like extreme virtues, i even add virtues from scion, so you dont need to stick everytime to temperance conviction valor and compassion, dont be afraid of having your own rules for high powered games, just remember that direct challenges to those characters are very uncommon, at least in creation, and you can set even more challenging trials in the form of sorcerous workings, machinations between realms, politics of heaven, curses, legendary feats. To be fair, i allow in my games time travel and resurrections, but the level of difficulty i set for those things is so high that my players preffer to not do those feats.