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  • Seeking thoughts and suggestions on constructing an organization in game, specifically a university.

    This thread started out as just a request for help from the forum for suggestion on how to write up stat providing benefits for having specific degrees from a university my character was constructing in game, but then after some suggestions from the user MoroseMorgan on giving backing in the university to students, it caused me to realize a very simple solution to the issue I had been dealing with for weeks now, on how to create an organization with stats in the game. After discussion with my player group, followed by further input from the users Caladon and Silent Witness which helped me apply this specifically to my university, and a lot of difficult work, this is what we came up with.
    (also i am still open to receiving suggestions to providing stats to majors)

    Thread Contents:
    Originally posted by norraba View Post
    Thread Introduction & Merits For Creating An Organization In Game
    Originally posted by norraba View Post
    Organization Exmple, or how I applied this to my university

    Merits That Make Up An Organization
    For the merits of Followers and Backing, I am not going to list the entire text that can be found in the book, but only the house rule alteration to them that are necessary for the formation of an organization. This is followed by the new homebrew merit that I constructed specifically for this purpose.
    Followers:
    Break the level caps on followers that restrict it to 3 dot, using the same guidelines established in the charm soul light spreading discipline, where the developer notes says (for the hypothetical purposes of this Charm, Followers 4 reflects 1000+ followers, while Followers 5 reflects 5000+.)

    Likewise create an Advanced Followers merit to represent followers that have been trained beyond their base stats, which is shown as possible in the text for the follower merit which says, "Such followers [base followers] are of average to above-average skill in their professions (two or three dot Ability ratings), and might be trained to greater expertise over time."


    Backing:
    Create a 1 dot value for backing, which currently only has a two dot, which is described as having low standing in a powerful organization or solid standing in a small organization. Understandably this was originally written with the intent of being merits for the player and not potential npc's, and so there is no reason to assume a player would want to be an errand boy in a fledgling organization, but when the exalt is intent on founding thier own organization, there is a need to have a 1 dot rating in backing to represent those people that are within their administration, whose loyalty is to their jobs and not specifically the exalt {which is covered by followers}, who do not occupy solid standing in the exalts fledgling organization.


    Executive Leadership: (•• to •••••, N/A at Story Teller discretion)—Story

    This merit may be purchased multiple times with diminishing returns up to a total of dots 8 dots of merits (the leader of powerful organizations can not have their attention spread too thin, or they risk losing them) This Merit can only be purchased at character creation with ST permission and by a player who exceeds the prerequisites by 2

    The Character is the head of an organization, either of their own making or one that they gained from another character, either by being the natural successor or through hostile takeover, the nature of which must be defined upon gaining the merit. For example, the character may be the dean of a flourishing university, the boss of a an organized crime syndicate, or a member of the guild directorate. Executive Leadership represents the resources that the character wields as the head of a potentially powerful organization that they have to call on for as long as they can maintain their position, but it also represents the strength of the organization itself, which, once defined through the merit, has a life of its own, and although the player may either bring to increase in greatness or diminish into obscurity by the dint of their own ability or incompetence respectively, once they are no longer the head of said organization, either through retiring or by being made to retire, the organization does not vanish but simply continues at its current level under its new leadership.

    Two-Dot Executive Leadership represents:
    • The character has sole leadership of a small organization with Influence and power throughout a city district or an entire town.
      • Example:
    • The character is a member of a collaborative leadership, as a member of an executive council, city spanning organization that has significant influence within their city or forms the connection between several towns.
      • Example:
    Three-Dot Executive Leadership represents:
    • The character has sole leadership of a city spanning organization that has significant influence within their city or forms the connection between several towns.
      • Example:
    • The character is a member of a collaborative leadership, as a member of an executive council, of a large organization whose power and influence is felt throughout the region and begins to resemble a government in of itself rivaling the resources of a city.
      • Example:
    Four-Dot Executive Leadership represents:
    • The character has sole leadership of a large organization whose power and influence is felt throughout the region and begins to resemble a government in of itself rivaling the resources of a city.
      • Example:
    • The character is a member of a collaborative leadership, as a member of an executive council, of an organization that has influence and power that stretches beyond to the nearer parts of adjacent regions whose leader holds the power of a king in their own direction despite not having a state, and is treated as an honored dignitary in others. shared leadership in a creation spanning organization
      • Example:
    Five-Dot Executive Leadership represents:
    • The character has sole leadership of an organization that has influence and power that stretches beyond to the nearer parts of adjacent regions whose leader holds the power of a king in their own direction despite not having a state, and is treated as an honored dignitary in others. shared leadership in a creation spanning organization
      • Example:
    • The character is a member of a collaborative leadership, as a member of an executive council, of a creation spanning organization, with power and influence that is felt in all the other directions
      • Example:
    N/A Executive Leadership:
    • The character has sole leadership of a creation spanning organization, with power and influence that is felt in all the other directions
      • Example:
    • The character is a member of a collaborative leadership, as a member of an executive council, of an organization who's influence goes beyond just influencing the five terrestrial directions but extends to even the celestial directions as well.
      • Example: A Guild Higher-arch
    The benefits of each level of merit will vary based on what the ST decides is appropriate for the nature of the organization, however all organizations provide the benefit of an administration and bureaucratic structure to help maintain the organization, influence equal to the level of the EL merit as the head of a famous organization, and they decrease the difficulty of increasing other merits through projects by the level of the merit/2 round up for characters who have sole leadership of an organization, and decrease it by level of merit for characters who are a part of a ruling council.

    If the resources that can be gained by the higher ranks of this merit seem large, it is important to remember that the difference between a character with two dots of Executive Leadership and N/A is the same as the difference between a guy who inherited the family's trading company he runs with his siblings, and a guild higher-arch.

    Pre-reqs:
    Before starting an organization at any level the character must have at least four of the following at at least the level of the intended organization
    Command, Contacts, Cult, Followers, Influence, Resources, or Retainer, however if the player has backing, mentor, or ally at the rank the intended or any of the prerequisite merits at a rank higher than the intended level they may count the merit as meeting two of the prerequisites, and an additional level for each level it exceeds the target.

    Nature of administration:
    Sole El
    Level two - Grants the character's administration 100 npc's with level 1 backing in the administration, 10 npc's with level 2 backing, and 1 npc with level one backing each holding the abilities of followers, advanced followers and a level 2 retainer respectively
    Level three - Grants the administration 1000 npc's with level 1 backing in the administration, 100 npc's with level 2 backing and 10 npc's with level 3 backing
    Level four - Grants the character 10,000 npc's with level 2 backing (Because at this point the organization is large enough that what would have been level 1 in a smaller org is now level 2), 1000 npc's with level 3, and 100 npc's with level 4 backing
    Level five - Grants the character with 100,000 npc's with level 2 backing, 10,000 npc's with level 3 backing, and 1000 npc's with level 4 backing, and an additional 100 npc's with level 4 backing and the stats of a level 4 retainer.
    N/A - the size of the administration is beyond reckoning

    Cooperative EL
    Everything just happens one level earlier

    The player may also supplement these levels with followers, retainers, and other such merits that create individuals loyal to the character and in fact it is encouraged, since npcs with backing in your organization would be loyal to the organization and not the player, which could lead to the potential for a hostile takeover.
    Other ways of preventing hostile takeovers is through the use of eclipse oaths, blackmail, bribes, influence, and anything you can think of to maintain control.

    Any character with backing at the appropriate level (as determined by the st) in an organization may start to make moves toward gaining leadership.
    Last edited by norraba; 05-14-2017, 02:13 PM.


    Elemental and dragon line descriptors and capturing device coming soon
    Craft Rewrite W/ Points, Slots, and Charms
    Executive Leadership Organization Merrit


  • #2
    Sounds like a good start to me. Maybe also some suggested intimacies? Many schools instill a certain philosophy in people, even if it is just "I'm better than you because I went to Harvard."

    edit: maybe also some merits representing alumnus status? Contacts?


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    • #3
      I would say that majority of degrees would give dots of lore with appropriate lore specialties/lore topics. Depending on the chosen path other skills could be taught. Some examples of specific programs could be:

      Doctor: medicine
      Law enforcement: bureaucracy and investigation
      Forensics: medicine and investigation (bodies)
      Exorcist: occult and lore(spirits)
      Military: war and lore(history, famous battles)

      If you are thinking of something more like a combined trade school and university there could be all sorts of courses on various martial skills, performance (music, theater, etc), or anything else you wanted.

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      • #4
        Keep in mind that many Classical schools of higher education emphasized not only teaching their students, but also on improving them as people. It was often more important to have a breadth of knowledge than mastery of a particular subject. I could certainly see using different combinations of skills/intimacies based on who a given student studies under.

        Now I really want to build Zenith Socrates.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MoroseMorgan View Post
          Sounds like a good start to me. Maybe also some suggested intimacies? Many schools instill a certain philosophy in people, even if it is just "I'm better than you because I went to Harvard."

          edit: maybe also some merits representing alumnus status? Contacts?
          Initially i was thinking that this was not along the lines of what i was thinking but then i realized how interesting it is, giving the ability to have game spanning plot hooks and potentials. I was originally planning on converting all students to followers upon their graduation, but honestly more students would be graduating than i could possibly sustain as followers anyways.

          What i'm thinking now based on this is:
          All students who are not followers gain
          • minor intimacy of respect to the institution of learning
          • further intimacies directed to their specific college and method of education/teachers
          • backing merit rank 1 in the university as a student, focussing on a hands on learning where the work they produce as a student can be used to benefit the administration of the university while the benefits they attain from said backing being that of a student who is gaining education, room and board.
          All alumni who are not followers gain
          • major Intimacy of pride in having graduated from the university
          • major/minor (depending on the individual) intimacy towards the universities core values
          • backing merit rank 2 representing the position they hold as a graduate of the university and the work they will do to increase the prestige of said university in order to increase their own benefits, represented by the influence and contacts that they would have as an alumni
          • influence merit rank 2, there is a reason why lawyers and doctors display the diplomas they have from prominent universities
          • Contacts merit rank 2, your fellow alumni.

            if a student disgraces themselves then all of these could be lost as their fellow alumni distance themselves from the alumni and they loose their backing from the institution, and if they disgrace themselves badly enough then even in the far reaches people would not take their diploma at face value and all they would be left with is the benefit of their higher stats from education.
          for other students, most will be represented as regular followers who will have the base ability of being skilled in a particular area upon entry, as listed under the follower merit, but when they graduate they will have higher stats to match the part of the follower merit that says that followers can be trained to higher level of expertise. Students who want to then pursue graduate studies would upon completion be converted into 2 dot retainers, and non-follower based graduate students would have the same level of skills as a retainer as well as all of the benefits from being an alumni raised one level higher.

          Originally posted by Caladon View Post
          I would say that majority of degrees would give dots of lore with appropriate lore specialties/lore topics. Depending on the chosen path other skills could be taught. Some examples of specific programs could be:

          Doctor: medicine
          Law enforcement: bureaucracy and investigation
          Forensics: medicine and investigation (bodies)
          Exorcist: occult and lore(spirits)
          Military: war and lore(history, famous battles)

          If you are thinking of something more like a combined trade school and university there could be all sorts of courses on various martial skills, performance (music, theater, etc), or anything else you wanted.
          yes a school of both knowledge and practical application is exactly what i am thinking of, i really like the idea of having them all have lore with the required specialty as well as appropriate practical skills and any more suggestions for what those could be would be amazing

          Originally posted by Silent Witness View Post
          Keep in mind that many Classical schools of higher education emphasized not only teaching their students, but also on improving them as people. It was often more important to have a breadth of knowledge than mastery of a particular subject. I could certainly see using different combinations of skills/intimacies based on who a given student studies under.
          this could definitely be implemented by having all the students gain base stats in both lore and integrity as well as impressing them with the intimacy of the school, which is to help people, while also giving them the ability to specialize with training in their desired profession's stats combined with lore specialties, kind of like in the difference between their general education and their specific major, while also impressing on them intimacies towards learning and the school, and the schools core values in general.

          I already have a slew of business administration students because the bureaucrat that authorized the construction of the first part of the university turned out to be a secret exalt who included a social charm towards love of bureaucracy in the plaque he provided after i promised to name the administration studies building after him lol.

          Originally posted by Silent Witness View Post
          Now I really want to build Zenith Socrates.
          it's actually so tempting to switch to zenith honestly and i encourage everyone to try this in their game.

          All i need now is to figure out the stats for each of the different majors.


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          • #6
            Constructing a university in exalted, both the infrastructure, and the benefit for students

            What this represents for my university is that it will be an organization comprised of a student body, administration, and labor force that is a combination of both base followers, advanced followers, retainers, and individuals with various levels of backing operating in similar roles who are affiliated with my organization but not personally loyal to my character.


            All students who are not followers gain
            • minor intimacy of respect to the institution of learning
            • further intimacies directed to their specific college and method of education/teachers
            • backing merit rank 1 in the university as a student, focussing on a hands on learning where the work they produce as a student can be used to benefit the administration of the university while the benefits they attain from said backing being that of a student who is gaining education, room and board.
            All alumni who are not followers gain
            • major Intimacy of pride in having graduated from the university
            • major/minor (depending on the individual) intimacy towards the university's core values
            • backing merit rank 2 representing the position they hold as a graduate of the university and the work they will do to increase the prestige of said university in order to increase their own benefits, represented by the influence and contacts that they would have as an alumni
            • influence merit rank 2, there is a reason why lawyers and doctors display the diplomas they have from prominent universities
            • Contacts merit rank 2, your fellow alumni.

              if a student disgraces themselves then all of these could be lost as their fellow alumni distance themselves from the alumni and they loose their backing from the institution, and if they disgrace themselves badly enough then even in the far reaches people would not take their diploma at face value and all they would be left with is the benefit of their higher stats from education.
            for other students, most will be represented as regular followers who will have the base ability of being skilled in a particular area upon entry, as listed under the follower merit, but when they graduate they will have higher stats to match the part of the follower merit that says that followers can be trained to higher level of expertise. Students who want to then pursue graduate studies would upon completion be converted into 2 dot retainers, and non-follower based graduate students would have the same level of skills as a retainer as well as all of the benefits from being an alumni raised one level higher.

            the executive branch of my university will be filled by various retainers, npcs with backing 3-4 in the university, or allies

            the laborer, skilled or otherwise, guardsman, etc... will also be represented by a mix of followers and npc's with backing 1-2 depending on their ranks within their specific area (when the organization becomes powerful enough to be considered established this will change to 2-3 to represent the change from being a fledgling organization)


            Next to determine is what exactly will be the effect of education, for players, non-player affiliated npc's and followers

            University education
            The education provided to students at the university, both undergraduate, and graduate, would be both an education in theory and an education in practical application of the skills needed to be the best at their specific job fields, for mortals.

            Prerequisites for student follower groups as well as student backed npc groups will be determined by specific colleges:

            Ex:
            (These are just current ideas, any further examples as well as suggestions for prerequisites would be welcomed)
            • College of Medicine:
            • College of History:
            • College of Humanities:
            • College of Environmental Science:
            • College of Education:
            • College of Business Administration:
            • College of Engineering/Craft:
            • College of Interdisciplinary Studies:
            • College of Occult Mysteries:
            These colleges are further divided into specific degree programs, through which students will receive even more specialized training that will make them more proficient:
            • C.O.M.
              • Doctor
              • Forensic Examiner
            • C.O.H.
            • C.O.Hume.
            • C.O.E.S.
            • C.O.E.
            • C.O.B.A.
              • Bureaucrat
            • C.O.E/C.
              • Architect
              • Carpenter
              • Armorsmith
              • Civil Engineer
              • Ect...
            • C.O.I.S.
              • Anthropology
              • Detective
            • C.O.O.M.
              • Exorcist
              • Sorcerer
            In addition to this, all students will have to participate in General Education Courses that will increase their understanding of the world in general while instilling the school's core values into students, of helping the less powerful.


            Edit: thanks for the help that i have so far gotten from morosemorgan, caladon, and silent witness i was really able to conceptualize how this would look in game, and if anyone else would be willing to help me further expand on this i would deeply appreciate it.
            Last edited by norraba; 05-14-2017, 01:42 PM.


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            • #7
              saved spot


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              • #8
                Well, let us examine from historical examples what a university may teach in the Second Age. The medieval universities specialized in the four disciplines of Arts, Law, Medicine, and Theology. You will probably have training in Bureaucracy, Integrity, Linguistics, Lore, Medicine, Performance, Presence, and Socialize. Now, First Age universities might have the curriculum that you outlined, but I think that the majority of the Second Age universities will restrict themselves to the central four disciplines.

                Craft disciplines are probably taught through apprenticeships in the Second Age, so they would really not have any place in universities in the Second Age. Law enforcement in the Second Age is also much more primitive than modern law enforcement, meaning that the local authorities usually just pick up the usual suspects and just torture everyone until someone confesses just to stop the pain, so it really has no place in universities in the Second Age (without modern technology, you cannot do modern forensics). Occult seems to be an inborn ability in 3e, so I think that the people who could learn to develop it would use an apprenticeship model instead of a university model, as there would likely never be enough students with the capabilities to justify an occult curriculum.

                In addition, how would people pay for the university? In medieval Europe, the universities were funded by the Church or by royalty, so the universities of the Second Age would likely have similar funding structures. If someone attempted to create their own university, they would either have to receive similar levels of support or have a small number of students. With a population of 500 million, Creation could only really justify a maximum of 5 million university graduates, which would mean 200,000 graduates per year. If we assume that there are around five hundred nations in Creation, the average nation could only support 10,000 university graduates and 400 graduates per year (meaning that the average national university would likely have only 2,000 students and 400 staff and faculty). Why would anyone fund your new university if the existing university of their nation is capable of meeting the demand and why would anyone come to your new university if there would be insufficient places for them in the nation to find gainful employment?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                  Well, let us examine from historical examples what a university may teach in the Second Age. The medieval universities specialized in the four disciplines of Arts, Law, Medicine, and Theology. You will probably have training in Bureaucracy, Integrity, Linguistics, Lore, Medicine, Performance, Presence, and Socialize. Now, First Age universities might have the curriculum that you outlined, but I think that the majority of the Second Age universities will restrict themselves to the central four disciplines.
                  actually something i've had a lot of trouble getting over as well, but have also come around to, is that even though there will be things in creation that are similar the analogues they will have in the real world, they are not going to be exactly the same, so even though there would have been these limitations at the time, i'm trying to construct it around the things that we have knowledge of based on the lore of creation. Also I am constructing this in the south, around chiaroscuro, so i am modeling it more on the middle eastern and north african style of universities, which is nice since we had the first universities in the world.
                  Craft disciplines are probably taught through apprenticeships in the Second Age, so they would really not have any place in universities in the Second Age.
                  well this is going to be a hybrid trade school and traditional university, but again there's no need to limit ourselves to real world analogues, but also i would disagree with this assesment of craft as well, considering it is an expansive ability that is used to make just about everything in game, from some skills that would definitely be more of a trade school type of deal like like carpentry, swordsmithing, and the like, but also ones that would not fit into that area, like architecture and art.
                  Law enforcement in the Second Age is also much more primitive than modern law enforcement, meaning that the local authorities usually just pick up the usual suspects and just torture everyone until someone confesses just to stop the pain, so it really has no place in universities in the Second Age (without modern technology, you cannot do modern forensics).
                  again i have to disagree, just the nature of the solar charms in the investigation tree gives us clues that that is not entirely how investigation works throughout creation, also the devs have specifically answered a question regarding autopsies, so although there is certainly not going to be anything like dna sequencing, there is still going to be forensic investigation.
                  Occult seems to be an inborn ability in 3e, so I think that the people who could learn to develop it would use an apprenticeship model instead of a university model, as there would likely never be enough students with the capabilities to justify an occult curriculum.
                  the devs have said specifically that while knowledge of the occult is a matter of lore, occult rating itself represents experience with the occult, which is part of the reason why my university is one that teaches a combination of theory and practice, and also we know that sorcery can be learned through gaining shaping rituals, although thaumaturgy is for sure an innate ability, i do think it would be interesting to have a school where thaumaturgists from around creation could come to learn new techniques since we now know they have to be taught directly and can not be learned through texts.
                  In addition, how would people pay for the university? In medieval Europe, the universities were funded by the Church or by royalty, so the universities of the Second Age would likely have similar funding structures. If someone attempted to create their own university, they would either have to receive similar levels of support or have a small number of students. With a population of 500 million, Creation could only really justify a maximum of 5 million university graduates, which would mean 200,000 graduates per year. If we assume that there are around five hundred nations in Creation, the average nation could only support 10,000 university graduates and 400 graduates per year (meaning that the average national university would likely have only 2,000 students and 400 staff and faculty). Why would anyone fund your new university if the existing university of their nation is capable of meeting the demand and why would anyone come to your new university if there would be insufficient places for them in the nation to find gainful employment?
                  the rules from my organizational merit create its own means of providing income to fund a university, although the starting capital for its construction will be provided by my character, but also a character with backing could use the organization that they have backing from to provide the resources. This i feel is a minor issue and there are already merits within the game to help players overcome this for the creation of their own organizations, along with the home brew merit i made in the first post.

                  thanks so much for your constructive criticism on this, part of checking to see if this system can work is in seeing if it can stand up to critique and i apreciate it.


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                  • #10
                    Aya Tari just to clarify the kinds of things that were taught at the middle eastern universities, just going off the wikipedia, we had degrees in alchemy, chemistry, cosmology and astronomy, botany, geography, cartography, mathematics, medicine, optics, physics, philosophy, biology, engineering, social science, the arts, etc... all between 800-1200 ad, so the limitations that european universities had up until the point that they started importing middle eastern knowledge wouldn't be an issue i don't feel, but also im very interested in what majors you would think are appropriate, so that i can add them to the list.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                      With a population of 500 million, Creation could only really justify a maximum of 5 million university graduates, which would mean 200,000 graduates per year.
                      How do you arrive at these figures?

                      Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                      If we assume that there are around five hundred nations in Creation...
                      This is not a good assumption, as nationalism probably hasn't even been invented in Creation.

                      Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                      the average nation could only support 10,000 university graduates and 400 graduates per year (meaning that the average national university would likely have only 2,000 students and 400 staff and faculty).
                      Again, how are you arriving at these numbers?

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                      • #12
                        These are just extrapolations based off the size of Creation, the productivity of medieval farming technology, and a correction for remnant First Age technology and Second Age Sorcery. If you remove the last aspect, you will probably see the population reduced to 250 million. Everything else is just base off historical patterns from the Earth. The economy of Creation does not seem to be that much different than Earth during the High Medieval Age.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                          These are just extrapolations based off the size of Creation, the productivity of medieval farming technology, and a correction for remnant First Age technology and Second Age Sorcery. If you remove the last aspect, you will probably see the population reduced to 250 million. Everything else is just base off historical patterns from the Earth. The economy of Creation does not seem to be that much different than Earth during the High Medieval Age.
                          This is what I thought you were basing your extrapolations on as well, and I forgot to mention that my university also overcomes the food limitation based on a verticals farming technology based on a combination of the hanging gardens of Babylon and indigenous step farming found in many real countries around the world, including my own. Also there is an excerpt from the lore that talks about how harvest spirits, not really gods but spirits of the crops, make food production even more plentiful and this is a good example of what I mean by things in creation not being a direct copy of their real world analogues.
                          Yes I am using a verticals step farm inspired by the hanging gardens of babylon and I am using a water fueling system inspired by the roman aqueducts, but I am also slapping a temple on the top of that step and having a priest constantly praying to the elemental dragons and the spirits of the harvest to make the yields more bountiful, which increases the yields even more than the canonical tiled increase provided by the worship of harvest spirits as household gods.

                          Also I understood your use of nations to simply be a standin for kingdoms it didn't seem confusing to me at all.


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                          • #14
                            Well, true vertical farming is only effecient when you are space-limited, which is really not a factor in most of Creation. Standard farming methods are simply more efficient than true vertical farming because they require less labor and less energy (vertical farming requires around ten times as much of each during the growing season, which is why it is only used for high value crops like fruits and vegetables in developed nations). Step farming is just more labor intensive terrace farming, so your productivity is more based on labor inputs than anything else.

                            Of course, this is only a game, so you can adjust production as you will. 20 metric tons of rice or maize per hectare seems to be the average sustainable upper limit on agriculture without heroic inputs (+/-25% because of local conditions), and that relies in modern agricultural technology, and other grains produce much less. Medieval-level technology will probably be limited to 2 metric tons of maize or rice per hectare of land. With remnant magical technology and modern sorcery, the average probably reaches 4 metric tons per hectare, which is the basis for my population estimates for Creation. Your estimates will vary with the assumptions that you use, but dramatically increased food production (and population growth) will probably be noticed by the Bronze Faction and the Realm.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                              Well, true vertical farming is only effecient when you are space-limited, which is really not a factor in most of Creation. Standard farming methods are simply more efficient than true vertical farming because they require less labor and less energy (vertical farming requires around ten times as much of each during the growing season, which is why it is only used for high value crops like fruits and vegetables in developed nations). Step farming is just more labor intensive terrace farming, so your productivity is more based on labor inputs than anything else.
                              Everything I've read says that stepfatming and terrace farming are synonymous so I'm confused at your acertstion that step farming is more labor intensive when as far as I know they are the same thing.
                              And also the area of growing is indeed limited, as I said before we are in the south, which imo is based off of North Africa, west Asia, South Asia, and mainland Southeast Asia all of which are known for their terrace farming, and which I am simply augmenting with the idea of making it extend vertically along an artificial structure similar to how the gardens of Babylon were believed to be an artificial terrace agriculture structure made on a zigaret.
                              Of course, this is only a game, so you can adjust production as you will. 20 metric tons of rice or maize per hectare seems to be the average sustainable upper limit on agriculture without heroic inputs (+/-25% because of local conditions), and that relies in modern agricultural technology, and other grains produce much less. Medieval-level technology will probably be limited to 2 metric tons of maize or rice per hectare of land. With remnant magical technology and modern sorcery, the average probably reaches 4 metric tons per hectare, which is the basis for my population estimates for Creation. Your estimates will vary with the assumptions that you use, but dramatically increased food production (and population growth) will probably be noticed by the Bronze Faction and the Realm.
                              I'm interested to know which real world analogue you are using for a basis of comparison for this real world growing ability, before I make any assumptions I would like to ask if you are using midevil Europe as your basis or not.

                              As for modern technology I don't think that is neccesary, rather I think people are more likely going to rely on their local field guardian.


                              Although I would prefer to get. Ack on track and discuss constructively about the flaws and merits of the organization foundation merits I put together or on the functioning of my university in game rather than food production that I can handwace by saying "I buy food"
                              Last edited by norraba; 05-15-2017, 01:32 PM.


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