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Exalted 2E Artifact Questions Re: Demon Summoning

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  • Exalted 2E Artifact Questions Re: Demon Summoning

    nevermind.
    Last edited by Tytalus; 05-24-2017, 03:59 PM.

  • #2
    But... I like demon summoning in 2e. I want to mind.


    Visit me at Tales of Grey - my RPG Game-Master's blog.

    "If only I had an enemy bigger than my apathy, I could have won" - I gave you all, Mumford & Sons

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    • #3
      Speaking of Demon Summoning in 2E - in my current 2E game, I gave my PCs an N/A rated artifact in the second session of the game. It's called The heart of the Desert, and is a large piece of black jade that holds one of Ceclyene's souls. It allows any essence user to summon any circle of demon instantly, provided they have the base essence rating needed to summon that demon. The PCs used in once to summon a couple of hopping puppeteers to help a village, and then promptly locked it in a vault beneath a manse to be never looked upon again.

      You can imagine how disappointed I was at their sensible choices.


      Visit me at Tales of Grey - my RPG Game-Master's blog.

      "If only I had an enemy bigger than my apathy, I could have won" - I gave you all, Mumford & Sons

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      • #4
        Originally posted by CapitanTypo View Post
        But... I like demon summoning in 2e. I want to mind.
        (1) What would you consider the rating for an Artifact that lets the user automatically win the Essence+Willpower contest?

        I'm thinking 4 dots.

        (2) A codex that magically updates all information of all Demons in Malfeas, including all information needed to summon any particular individual or race of demon of any circle. It also contains all Absisstic Binding techniques and recommends templates to minimize a particular demon's limit.

        I'm thinking 3 dots if it doesn't update, and 4 if it does.

        Thoughts?



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        • #5
          Assuming you're staying in 2e, I wouldn't permit any artifact that lets the user auto-win binding rolls against demons of the third circle; If you're willing to limit yourself to first and second, then yeah, 4 dots sounds okay.

          Originally posted by Tytalus View Post
          (2) A codex that magically updates all information of all Demons in Malfeas, including all information needed to summon any particular individual or race of demon of any circle.
          Regardless of whether it updates on its own or not, such a codex would be beyond massive, considering the demonic residents of Hell number in the billions. Even if you assume that only first circle demons who are particularly different from their brethren are recorded, it would still be a ponderous tome.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Tytalus View Post
            (1) What would you consider the rating for an Artifact that lets the user automatically win the Essence+Willpower contest?
            I agree that 3rd Circles should be exempt, or just get a bonus. Otherwise 4 dots.

            Originally posted by Tytalus View Post
            A codex that magically updates all information of all Demons in Malfeas, including all information needed to summon any particular individual or race of demon of any circle. It also contains all Absisstic Binding techniques and recommends templates to minimize a particular demon's limit.
            I would actually put such a thing squarely in N/A. In-setting a comprehensive catalog of everything in Malfeas is something Exalted, gods, demons, and sorcerers of all kinds would wage long bloody wars over. It may not feel super powerful but it would be a world-shaping macguffin.

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            • #7
              Ok, Maybe I'll say double willpower+essence vs 3rd circles. PC essence pools still aren't *that* large, and 24 dice (one pc has will 9, ess 3) vs 25 dice (say) and could only knock down the demon's pool by 2, maybe 3, so (24 vs 22) is still quite swingy. Powerful, especially in the hands of an elder exalt, but in the hand of players still not *that* good.

              As for the Tome, I really had something much more modest in mind than what I wrote down. I was just thinking something that (1) would be highly useful for demon summoning sorcers but (2) not something gamebreaking in of itself. The idea that paired with the previous demon summoning artifact, would make it significantly more dangerous than it would seem to be at first glance.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Tytalus View Post

                (1) What would you consider the rating for an Artifact that lets the user automatically win the Essence+Willpower contest?

                I'm thinking 4 dots.

                (2) A codex that magically updates all information of all Demons in Malfeas, including all information needed to summon any particular individual or race of demon of any circle. It also contains all Absisstic Binding techniques and recommends templates to minimize a particular demon's limit.

                I'm thinking 3 dots if it doesn't update, and 4 if it does.

                Thoughts?


                I think automatically winning the binding contest is even more powerful than my free-summoning artifact.

                As for the book, yeah, that seems about right.


                Visit me at Tales of Grey - my RPG Game-Master's blog.

                "If only I had an enemy bigger than my apathy, I could have won" - I gave you all, Mumford & Sons

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                • #9
                  I agree with Blackwell that the book would be highly sought after, but that doesnt make it particularly powerful in and of itself.


                  Visit me at Tales of Grey - my RPG Game-Master's blog.

                  "If only I had an enemy bigger than my apathy, I could have won" - I gave you all, Mumford & Sons

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CapitanTypo View Post
                    I agree with Blackwell that the book would be highly sought after, but that doesnt make it particularly powerful in and of itself.
                    Disagree. Consider how arcane the lore of Malfeas can get. Whatever magic powers the thing would have to be Maiden-of-Secrets-level.

                    If it were, say, the magically-indexed notes of a First Age Twilight Demonologist that was a comprehensive catalog of basically every demon, I would agree with you. I'd even let it go if it were a bit mysterious and unreliable, with pages appearing and disappearing with no knowable pattern. But being exhaustive, self-updating, and infallible makes it a big deal.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Blackwell View Post

                      Disagree. Consider how arcane the lore of Malfeas can get. Whatever magic powers the thing would have to be Maiden-of-Secrets-level.

                      If it were, say, the magically-indexed notes of a First Age Twilight Demonologist that was a comprehensive catalog of basically every demon, I would agree with you. I'd even let it go if it were a bit mysterious and unreliable, with pages appearing and disappearing with no knowable pattern. But being exhaustive, self-updating, and infallible makes it a big deal.

                      It goes without saying (except for the evident need to say it) that everyone will interpret such things differently as suits their style and engagement with the game and setting, but here's why I don't think the artifact itself will be quite so earth shattering in power (or more correctly, here are a couple of variations on the theme...)

                      Demons are creatures of darkness and therefore subject to additional effects from charms and magic that affects such creatures.

                      This applies to a complete-new, literally-born-yesterday of a never-exited-before type of first circle demon as it does to the surviving souls who were defeated in battle and turned into demons as part of their imprisonment after the war.

                      This means there is some magical identifier bound into their nature to identify them as creatures of darkness, which means that the fabric of creation has woven into it some way to identify and recognise such demons.

                      Now there are two main ways to play this: either all demons bear a kind of magical brand as 'demon' that is otherwise generic OR each demon's nature and identity is bound up with whatever metaphysical aspect marks them as a creature of darkness.

                      If you go with the former, then sure, a book that somehow actually knows the identify and nature of each type of demon is a much more powerful magical device.

                      BUT

                      Through the use of the summoning spells you are able to summon specific demons by type and by name, which means that the magical fabric of creation and the barrier that separates creation and malfeas and similarly must be able to recognise individual demons and types of demons, otherwise the rituals wouldn't allow for such selective summoning. You'd just summon first circle demon and get whichever one happened to be too close to the portal on thursday afternoon.

                      Keep in mind that 2E talks about the early Solars having rewritten the fabric of creation so that anyone who wants to learn sorcery will ultimately find a teacher, so such concepts of a semi-sentient magical law of nature is not too far removed, so if there is some metaphysical marker that identifies each demon and type of demon then it's actually not THAT powerful an effect to have a book that can read it and translate it into book form. It's definitely an artifact that only a solar could have created (or maybe they were the only ones able to create the Third circle book)

                      But the way I see it, it actually makes a lot of sense for the Solars to have created quite a few of these objects. The solars were, in no small part, the Demon's gaolers. The Solars defeated and imprisoned the Yozis, and in the process wrote the magical rules of reality that let sorcerers summon and bind them as demons. As a gaoler, you would want a clear and concise manifest of those you have imprisoned, AND you would want it to magically update itself if it could, because as the more powerful demons are capable of creating new first circle demons at will, you wouldn't want to get caught by surprise if they manage to create something that otherwise slips your detection and is able to affect creation in ways you hadn't anticipated.

                      Hence, the 'Gaolers Manifest' makes a lot of sense as a first age solar artifact, and even the existence of multiples - even if only 5, one for each direction plus Meru.


                      Visit me at Tales of Grey - my RPG Game-Master's blog.

                      "If only I had an enemy bigger than my apathy, I could have won" - I gave you all, Mumford & Sons

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                      • #12
                        It could also be that the cataloguing of the demon hordes of Malfeas is something Cecylene is charged with doing, and as such the book might have a connection with her (or one of her third circle souls)


                        Visit me at Tales of Grey - my RPG Game-Master's blog.

                        "If only I had an enemy bigger than my apathy, I could have won" - I gave you all, Mumford & Sons

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                        • #13
                          Random thoughts months later: artifact 5 for auto-winning the summoning contest with 3rd circle demons? Theoretically, not for a game I'm using.

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                          • #14
                            ST perogative, but personally I wouldn't allow it. Summoning TCDs in my mind is the kind of thing that solars can do from Essence 5 on but really should not if they are smart. Those things are vastly beyond them in power and summoning them up is a dumb idea in most cases. The Calibration dinner existed in the old realm for that exact reason, to keep ambitious solars from getting themselves and their countryside annihilated because they were arrogant. Sure once you get to Essence 8+ you have a better chance at winning that roll off... and if it goes wrong you could then at least also hope to do something about the spirits you've called up.


                            My Mage 2e Homebrew

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