Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Tomb of Dreams & Doppelganger and Mata-Yadh are live!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Ekorren View Post
    Not really a fan of calling it doppelgänger instead of doppelganger. The concept itself seems cool though. Reminds me of the Homunculus I've been having in my game recently.


    ...pssst....
    It's spelled "doppelgänger" because that's how the world is actually spelled. It's German.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppelg%C3%A4nger


    Exalted Behind a Screen of Jade

    Comment


    • #17
      Guess further math-thought for folks.

      The Fair Folk Cataphract as I gather is dice pool 16 on its attacks resting with kind of an assumption taht raksha have 1) Higher dice pools than humans and 2) Doesn't have a dice-adder. I think it's worth noting that while it has a high resting set of dice pools, that's about how high it gets for it. The behemoth kind of blows that out of the water with its AOE +5 thing going on. SImilar with its social influence stuff, actually.

      I'm also kind of concenred that the effect of breaking one of its limbs, as i htink on it, is so severe that folks probably will think it's not worth the effort since being lbinded to even try breaking one of those things is not worhtt he effort. More I look at it the more the dice math goes form "Challenge to Solars" to soemthing that feels like "Well folks will perfect it anyways" mindset with balance, which I'm not feeling very good with.

      The doppleganger has an issue where not only is its resting dice pools a tad bloated, but it has some pretty easy double-N effects in there, which also bothers me quite a bit.

      And stuff.
      Last edited by Blaque; 05-24-2017, 08:26 PM.


      And stuff.
      Made signature by moderator request. Any actual typing of "And stuff." is out of habitual reflex.

      Comment


      • #18
        I kinda feel like the Librarian is a continuation of an issue I saw in the Core, where Books in general and Ancient Lore Books in specific are treated as these rare and important things....but there's no mechanical weight to back that up. I'd appreciate some guidelines as to what to expect from being able to eat a book.


        Placeholder

        Comment


        • #19
          That said, I do like the concepts. I haven't looked enough to know whether I think the mechanics need adjusting, but I've liked these.


          Placeholder

          Comment


          • #20
            ...Oh yes. Lea, if you're around, I had a question for you about Tomb of Dreams.

            IIRc, way back during the Kickstarter, I think you made a comment to effect that you'd figured out what the main issue was that all the other Exalted adventures (or maybe it was just the Tombs ones, I dunno) suffered from, and that you'd solved it in yours. I've been wondering what that issue was.


            Placeholder

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post
              ...Oh yes. Lea, if you're around, I had a question for you about Tomb of Dreams.

              IIRc, way back during the Kickstarter, I think you made a comment to effect that you'd figured out what the main issue was that all the other Exalted adventures (or maybe it was just the Tombs ones, I dunno) suffered from, and that you'd solved it in yours. I've been wondering what that issue was.
              No social angle. Tomb of 5 Corners was a dungeon crawl; Return to the Tomb of 5 Corners is just Tomb of 5 Corners again with a reskin and fancier environs.Tomb of Dreams is modeled after a stripped-down Mass Effect planet like Feros or Noveria -- self-contained environs, social challenges, martial challenges, moral quandry.

              (And yeah, it was the problem with the other demo scenarios specifically, not the problem with all the scenarios.)
              Last edited by Stephen Lea Sheppard; 05-24-2017, 09:09 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                It's very possible that ghosts may have an entirely new set of mechanical tricks this time around, and given the way Dragonblooded and Solar mechanics have gone, I'd suggest it's sort of likely even. In such a case it may be wise to recalibrate our expectations about ghostly ability.

                For example, the social pool of the Doppleganger is... really good. But when you start to consider what the Doppleganger is, it's not actually that out of line. We must remember this creature is not only ancient, but it has a razor-narrow focus on this area of interest and strives 24-7 to better itself in this regard. It's not surprising in any way that it surpasses mortal skill.

                What's surprising, when you think about it, is that the previous mechanical implementation of ghosts didn't allow them this. OBVIOUSLY ghosts should get super insane good at the things they do, they live forever! They're ghosts! That's like one of the only advantages of being dead!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Haven`t seen a comment about the Eclipse Keyword in Soul Thieving Method. How good is that for shutting someone down? I like it.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I think it's more that I'd rather see interesting social influence powers express the doppelganger's capability at social influence rather than just giving it dicepools better than Mara and the like.

                    Like, hell, look at Mara! She's really good at social influence in her milieu, but it isn't expressed just by giving her an excellency and a high dice pool, but by some interesting powers vis-a-vis seductions and dark bargains she can offer and whatnot. That's great, more of that!
                    Last edited by Leetsepeak; 05-24-2017, 10:19 PM.


                    Leetsepeak's Ex3 Homebrew Hub - Hub of homebrew for Exalted 3rd Edition that I've made.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post
                      Haven`t seen a comment about the Eclipse Keyword in Soul Thieving Method. How good is that for shutting someone down? I like it.
                      It's good. Limited to unarmed attacks, but it can actually be game breaking without trying very hard. It's easy to get withering damage.


                      Craft rewrite.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Leetsepeak View Post
                        I think it's more that I'd rather see interesting social influence powers express the doppelganger's capability at social influence rather than just giving it dicepools better than Mara and the like.
                        Mostly this. And especially since again, by the guidelines of the book, this shoudl be top of the top sort of antagonists, which I'm not sure this is what the doppleganger's role is and it needs quite that many dice to succeed at being.

                        And stuff.


                        And stuff.
                        Made signature by moderator request. Any actual typing of "And stuff." is out of habitual reflex.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Blaque View Post

                          Mostly this. And especially since again, by the guidelines of the book, this shoudl be top of the top sort of antagonists, which I'm not sure this is what the doppleganger's role is and it needs quite that many dice to succeed at being.

                          And stuff.
                          Again, worrse then the Loreli. I'd say the lack of charms is important too. Namely, for it's lack of flexibillity/supernatural boost.


                          Restoring demonic glory in Infernals:What Hell Has Wrought

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I just noticed Mata-Yadh's essence is only 3. I was in the (long standing) habit of judging higher essence as more powerful but Mata at e3 looks comparable to Fakharu (to me). Am I missing something in Fak's charms that gives it the wider lead or is essence a poor judge of power now?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Epee102 View Post

                              Again, worrse then the Loreli. I'd say the lack of charms is important too. Namely, for it's lack of flexibillity/supernatural boost.
                              It is better than the lorelei on persuade and instill, has double-9s on disguses and seems only worst than her on seduction and reading intentions. It also arguably is a better fighter since while it has a smaller pool, its dice pool goes further and it's a bit more durable.

                              And it also is again, somewhat out of wack with other ghosts in the corebook. The nephwrack is pretty beefy but is also more than twice the doppleganger's Essence and as I gather meant to be a boss fight in itself. This doppleganger I'm not so sure is meant to be that. What about it means an Essence 2 ghsot should have a rating that, as the corebook describes it:

                              ".. A QC with this dice pool is likely to defeat even specialized player characters if they’re not equally optimized or using magic—the Storyteller should be cautious in using them, so that players do not feel forced to maximize their stats just to have a fighting chance. Such ratings should be uncommon and noteworthy even among the ranks of the Exalted."

                              Again, this is kind of the issue I have with the doppleganger and to some extent, the behemoth. The doppleganger being Essence 2 and given the "Sample character" treatment with a background indicates this is actually normal for ghosts...which indicates that actually you should probably max out more to deal with them. Note as contrast, the "Badass final boss ghost", the nephwrack, only had two pools above 10. One is his shape sorcery (which is potent, but not a generic "Everything in a ctaggory" roll) and his daiklave (and weapons tend to be higher due to bonuses to accuracy in QCs). The doppleganger has a resting social influence pool of 14 and a Resolve of 7. If the only thing comparable to that is a raksha (things which look like to be running on the logic of 1e of stupid high dice pools but no real flexiblity), then I think that it starts looking off. And note again, the lorelie doens' thave dice tricks like double-N. She makes what she does better when it succeeds, but doesn' tmanipulate the math like the doppleganger does.

                              And this is before we consider that for not-Solars, the raw brute math of this thing might make it difficult to use for most games. As noted already, many things are not super powerful elites in the corebook wtih an assumption you might e playing mortals or that Solars being able to beat them kind of easily is a feature, not a bug. This kind of feels off since it so blatently works out of the parameters of the QC rules in teh corebook, unless something is pretty big missing in how it has been revised I'm not aware of.

                              And stuff.


                              And stuff.
                              Made signature by moderator request. Any actual typing of "And stuff." is out of habitual reflex.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by The Unsung Hero View Post
                                I want to preface this with I'm not trying to claim anyone's statements or analysis of the mechanics are wrong.

                                That said, I am genuinely surprised after a year of seeing so many folks complain about the weakness of most of the antagonists in the core book, to finally see some beefier opponents and then complain about it. I'm not claiming that it's even the same people, this is just a general impression. I thought people were generally bothered by how low most units numbers were and how chopped meat they were compared to any remotely combat focused Solar. Now we get a Behemoth (which should almost never be a solo fight anyways) and people are unhappy that it's so strong.

                                Again, I haven't analyzed the mechanics and I wouldn't be that good at it if I tried, so people may be spot on with it's strength. I just got the impression that this was filling a hole that was previously observed and remarked upon.

                                My 2 cents.
                                I haven't looked at them either but I'm ecstatic that people are saying there's more tough enemies to fight now. So so many of the fights in exalted are easy to the point of not being fun, so much so that we instituted a 0-1 dawns rule, and I took the dawn this campaign, gave my self 3 dex and 1 dot in brawn to start the campaign just so we'd have some good ones at the start. I'll say this again because it bears repeating every time this comes up, but I don't want a 60% chance of my players biting the dust every fight, I just want some back and forth. Really hoping with these reactions that these guys will be able to hit my crane stylist and maybe even survive a punch from him.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X