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  • #16
    Originally posted by tytalan View Post
    That said why is it that as soon as all the main books were out for 2nd edition we must jump straight to a 3rd edition? I know that new editions is a way to keep generating income from a game line but most companies at least give some time between editions.
    Wasn't the gap between 2nd ed and third ed punctuated by the sale of WW to CCP, the suspension of all print product development, the attempt and ultimate failure to build an WoD MMO, and then the return of WW IP under a deal with the newly formed Onyx Path?

    It's not like the singular group of individuals were sitting around twiddling their mustaches and cackling maniacally while planning 3rd ed on the day the last 2nd ed book was published (or maybe they were, I don't know, but a lot of shit happened in between)


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    "If only I had an enemy bigger than my apathy, I could have won" - I gave you all, Mumford & Sons

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    • #17
      Originally posted by CapitanTypo View Post

      Wasn't the gap between 2nd ed and third ed punctuated by the sale of WW to CCP
      That was in 2006.

      ​That was about when Second Edition started.


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      • #18
        Originally posted by Holden View Post
        The EX2 system had some foundational issues that made it a chore to work with, and the edition was riddled with important books suffering from poor rules quality. Also, the edition's publishing method meant that the setting felt very mapped-down-to-the-last-grain-of-sand by the time it came to the end of its (ten-year!) run. A new edition was the best answer to all of those problems.
        If it isn't the Elusive Hamster! It's good to see you still about, and chiming into the forums!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

          That was in 2006.

          ​That was about when Second Edition started.

          Okay, but the company publishing 3rd ed is not the same company that published 2nd ed, right?


          Visit me at Tales of Grey - my RPG Game-Master's blog.

          "If only I had an enemy bigger than my apathy, I could have won" - I gave you all, Mumford & Sons

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          • #20
            Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
            But the original Glories of the Most High was pretty overwhelmingly loved.
            It was somewhat like Lunars 2e in that it started out with a fairly positive reaction, but over time opinions (mine and others) changed considerably. Glories (and a great deal of the Ink Monkeys later material) is cited as a good example of 'what went wrong with 2e' - exhaustive detailing of little-used setting elements being just one example.


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            • #21
              IRC the Virtue limitations of the Unconquered Sun made him function more like the 2e Yozis, as was the style at the time - Big cosmic power; tiny liv.... ahem, some very clearly defined things he could *not* do, which in theory you could use to put him in a weakened situation and make him fightable. And he was defined as being as non-mysteriously "good" as the Yozis were non-mysteriously "bad".

              All this was pretty popular at the time (except among some of us, but then, for balance's sake, we probably tended to overstate the moral ambiguity of "Season 1 Sun" anyway). It became less popular later.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by CapitanTypo View Post
                Okay, but the company publishing 3rd ed is not the same company that published 2nd ed, right?
                No, it's the same.


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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Piff View Post

                  It was somewhat like Lunars 2e in that it started out with a fairly positive reaction, but over time opinions (mine and others) changed considerably. Glories (and a great deal of the Ink Monkeys later material) is cited as a good example of 'what went wrong with 2e' - exhaustive detailing of little-used setting elements being just one example.

                  If Glories had been a one off in that regard I don't think there would be the grounds to crticisize. Having the ability to represent cosmic npcs with the mechanics necessary to fight them is not a bad thing - especially if those mechanics facilitate interesting storyhooks like the Unconquered Sun's Virtues.

                  Building the game around titanomachy rather than the human conflicts of the Exalted is where you run into the problem. It would be possible to do something like Glories and not necessarily go all the way down that road.

                  Point is, in quality of product, rather than debates over the impact it had on the rest of the line, Glories was great.


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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
                    No, it's the same.
                    Oh, ok. SO who owns the rights to 2nd ed? I was under the impression that Onyx Path was using the properties under license from CCP.


                    Visit me at Tales of Grey - my RPG Game-Master's blog.

                    "If only I had an enemy bigger than my apathy, I could have won" - I gave you all, Mumford & Sons

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by CapitanTypo View Post

                      Oh, ok. SO who owns the rights to 2nd ed? I was under the impression that Onyx Path was using the properties under license from CCP.
                      As best as I know, the rights to Exalted are owned by the Swedish iteration of White Wolf (also referred to as nuWW), and licensed to Onyx Path. They rights were previously held by CCP. The formation of Onyx Path occurred during Second Edition—I was there for the changeover, which really didn't change much for the freelancers.


                      Developer for Exalted

                      Want to write for Exalted? Look at the freelancer submission guidelines.

                      Robert Vance's Patreon

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                      • #26
                        Whoever owns the rights to Exalted owns the rights to Exalted; there's no "X owns 2e, but Y owns 3e." Currently it's owned by Paradox Entertainment (Paradox Interactive? Whatever), who purchased them from CCP, and who license them to Onyx Path Productions. But the owner of of Onyx Path, Richard Thomas, was the creative director of White Wolf Game Studio back when it was White Wolf Game Studio and not a just brand, and the Onyx Path freelancer pool mostly consists of former White Wolf Game Studio freelancers and employees, with the normal churn you see over time. There hasn't been any handover where the people who worked on Ex2 have been entirely replaced by a new group of people who work on Ex3, just complex legal juggling happening over all their heads.

                        (Though the actual developers have changed -- from Rob Hatch during 1e's first development phase before the game was released; to Geoffrey C. Grabowski for the 1e corebook and all of 1e and the 2e corebook; to John Chambers, Ex1's chief editor, for 2e after the corebook and up until near the end; to Holden Shearer and John Morke for the very tail end of 2e and the 3e core; and now to Eric Minton and Robert Vance, who were late 2e freelancers and 3e corebook writers. As I said, normal churn. Richard Thomas has been Boss of Exalted's Boss the whole time.)
                        Last edited by Stephen Lea Sheppard; 07-15-2017, 07:38 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Didn't you take a stab at developing for at least a couple of books, there, Stephen?

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                            Didn't you take a stab at developing for at least a couple of books, there, Stephen?
                            Yes and no. During the height of Ex2 and when John Chambers was dividing his time between his CCP duties, developing Exalted, and creating the first edition of Scion, the standard procedure for book production became him writing the outline and choosing freelancers, soliciting first drafts, and then passing development of those drafts to a freelance developer to write redlines and revise the second drafts into finals as well as writing art notes. I did Compass: West, Roll of Glorious Divinities I, and then burned out in the middle of development of Compass: You-Shan, leaving him to finish it. Which I still feel really badly about. I was never anything like an actual line developer.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Stephen Lea Sheppard View Post
                              Which I still feel really badly about.
                              ​Badly is an adverb; to feel badly means that the mechanism that allows you to feel is broken.


                              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                              Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                              https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                              • #30
                                That, too.

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