Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Increasing the number of Lunar Exalted

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Increasing the number of Lunar Exalted

    So, I am wondering what type of effect (if any) does everyone think would occur if we increased the number of Lunar Essences to 900? Since there are three times as many Solar Essences as Sidereal Essence, it seems to me that there would be a nice symmetry if there were three times as many Lunar Essences as there were Solar Essences. Of course, it would mean that the Lunar Exalted of the First Age would have been roughly divided into three groups (Consorts and Lovers for the Solar Kings and Queens of the Old Realm, Admirals and Generals for the military of the Old Realm, and Scouts and Spies who would act as an early warning system for threats to the Old Realm), but I do not think that it would really matter that much other than giving more diversity to the opinions of modern Lunar Exalted about the ancient Solar Exalted.

    Do you think such an increase would make the Lunar Exalted too much of a threat for the Realm? What other effects do you think increasing the number of Lunar Essences would have? Do you think that such an increase would be a good idea or do you think that the current number is adequate?

  • #2
    I can't speak from experience with 3rd on this, as the Lunar's book is not out yet. So bear in mind my opinion is based on the 2e Manual of Exalted Power.

    I say its your game, do it if it works for you. However, one thing to keep in mind is that the Lunars get a lot of bang for their buck charm wise. The Lunar Ox-Body Technique gave six health levels in 2e. One Ox-Body charm and you've nearly doubled your health levels. Most other Exalts had to take two or three Ox-Body's to get their health doubled like that. Lunar Excellencies are also Attribute based, so they go a pretty long distance in terms of what you can do with them. If your comfortable with having an additional 600 of these exalts in your game, go for it and see how it turns out. Overall I don't think changing the numbers will have much effect on the game, its just 600 more possible exalts and you can't play them all the same time...

    Comment


    • #3
      You have now compounded the problem of why the Lunars have accomplished essentially nothing in 2000 years. While the Caul is a new thing they did, for the most part the world has been the Terrestrials' playground.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Exthalion View Post
        You have now compounded the problem of why the Lunars have accomplished essentially nothing in 2000 years. While the Caul is a new thing they did, for the most part the world has been the Terrestrials' playground.
        I know Holden stressed that isn't the case in 3E, and in fact Lunars sabotage is a huge part of the reason Dragon-Blooded infrastructure hasn't gotten past late antiquity level.


        Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

        Comment


        • #5
          I'd wonder, being outnumbered 3 to 1 by Lunars, how the Solars managed to be in charge of the Old Realm, and didn't have to share power with the Lunars as equals. Solars are more powerful than Lunars; but they're not that much more powerful.


          Anyway, in the modern day, I'd say:
          Originally posted by Aya Tari

          Do you think such an increase would make the Lunar Exalted too much of a threat for the Realm?
          Yes............
          but honestly, it's not like we can really measure these things. There's no particular way to say "X DBs are equal to Y Lunars". We just assume 15000 Realm DBs and 400 Lunars are roughly matched. If the books said "15000 Realm DBs and 900 Lunars are roughly matched"... okay? You can't measure that, really.

          I mean, if suddenly Luna exalted 500 new Lunars, then the plot would be that the Realm is in deep trouble, yeah.


          Originally posted by Aya Tari
          Do you think that such an increase would be a good idea or do you think that the current number is adequate?
          I think the current number is adequate. Firstly, it's enough that the Solar Bond is a thing, but if you really hate it (as some Lunar players do) you can play someone who doesn't have one.
          Secondly, it gives you about 100-150 of each caste, which I think is a good number.
          Or, to put it away, there's about 100 per direction (or maybe 80, plus 80 for the River Province) which I think is plenty.

          Currently, for the area level I tend to use for games (generally about 2 million square miles), I reckon about 5 Lunars (ie one pack) is reasonable, plus PCs, perhaps a bit more if I want, with 100 per direction. So most recently, I had one Lunar pack of 4 or 5, 1 Lunar behind the throne of Harborhead, 1 Lunar on the throne of his own city-state, and 2 Lunar PCs.
          That's a little high, but it's fine, because it's a dramatic area where dramatic stuff is happening, and presumably there's plenty of 2 million square mile areas of boring desert with like 1 or 2 Lunars.

          My friend's game is a bit smaller (just 3-4 smaller countries next to each other, south-west of Prasad), so there's just our Lunar PCs, but there's another Lunar pack to our east (where my Lunar's gone to be tattooed), so the number's roughly the same. Essentially, one Lunar pack for the west of the Dreaming Sea region.

          Anyway, 8 or 9 Lunars in an exciting, active area of about 2m square miles seems a bit high when there's 100 Lunars per direction, but it's okay because of all the blank areas, so the number is about right, I think.

          If there was 900 Lunars, then we'd be talking over 200 Lunars per direction. That'd be a lot more areas per game area (like, the Dreaming Sea would probably have about 50 Lunars, which I think is way too many), and I'd feel like I'd have to put in a lot more Lunar characters... but I don't really want to.
          (One of the key lessons I learnt when running 2nd ed is not to have too many Exalts: instead, use a small number of Exalts but put more effort into making them cool, interesting, and evocative, with effects on the societies around them. Having the Abyssal, Solar or Lunar of the week makes Exalts generic and uninspiring. Each one should be a world-shaker, not a throw-away NPC. Thus, I don't want to have too many Celestials per game. In my 2nd ed game, I think the PCs met something like 50+ Celestials, in my 3rd ed game, they met about 12, but I bet they can remember more about the 3rd ed Celestials than the 2nd ed ones, because they were more interesting and had effects on the world around them)

          I'm not sure if that's very clear, but I hope you guys can see what I'm getting at.


          "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

          Comment


          • #6
            There are no set numbers this edition. So the old figures off 300-300-100 dont necessarily apply anymore. In fact, it may be now there is no ratio between them at all, especially with Solar Bond not being a thing anymore

            I wouldnt go with 900 though (a few too many), but more Lunars than Solars totally works in my books

            Comment


            • #7
              I think there still are set numbers; they're just a bit vague.

              There are about 150 Solars. There are about 400 Lunars (might be 390, might be 415, but it's about 400). There's probably about 100 Abyssals, approx.

              There's about 25000 DBs, IIRC?

              Though I think there probably will be exactly 100 Sidereals (but of course, in reality there's about 90ish, because some are unexalted).


              "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by vampire hunter D View Post
                especially with Solar Bond not being a thing anymore
                The bond is still a thing. It is just that it is now an option rather than the default setting.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Exthalion View Post
                  You have now compounded the problem of why the Lunars have accomplished essentially nothing in 2000 years. While the Caul is a new thing they did, for the most part the world has been the Terrestrials' playground.
                  Pretty much this.
                  Honestly to me, the Lunar problem has always been one of tone. They (and thus a lot of their fanbase) don't seem to consider their enemies as being worthy of them, this means when they fail (which they must, at least until RY 768) there's no saving face.


                  Onyx Path Forums Moderator

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                    I'd wonder, being outnumbered 3 to 1 by Lunars, how the Solars managed to be in charge of the Old Realm, and didn't have to share power with the Lunars as equals. Solars are more powerful than Lunars; but they're not that much more powerful.
                    What was the basis of Solar pre-eminence in the First Age specifically?

                    ​If it's a matter of why Solars are in charge and Lunars aren't, I would propose that this was because being in charge was the kind of thing that many Lunars did not want and weren't very good at.

                    Originally posted by Greyman View Post
                    It is just that it is now an option rather than the default setting.
                    ​What do you mean by that?


                    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                    Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In a game sense raising the number of Lunars in the setting makes no practical difference. STs will use whatever number of Exalts they find entertaining or needed for their games. Besides this edition sets no hard limits on the number of Celestial Exalts that I can see beyond 'some hundreds'.

                      Its logical effect on the setting of dramatically raising the number of Lunar Exalts is still something to consider though for many reasons explained above. I like the ratios set forth in earlier editions so don't see much reason to change it. I do see your suggested political divisions of what the Lunars would be in the 1st Age a bit rigid and unrealistic. The majority of Lunars would more than likely play multiple roles that overlapped quite a bit.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                        What do you mean by that?
                        In Ex3 the bond isn't presented as a link every lunar exaltation had with a solar exaltation, 1:1, but as a bond that might be formed between two exalted over several excarnations. It's being set up as an opt-in rather than an opt-out story hook.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Greyman View Post
                          In Ex3 the bond isn't presented as a link every lunar exaltation had with a solar exaltation, 1:1, but as a bond that might be formed between two exalted over several excarnations. It's being set up as an opt-in rather than an opt-out story hook.
                          And applicable to all Exalts?

                          Damn, what a way to water down a thematic idea... I'd be disappointed with that...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Paradim View Post

                            And applicable to all Exalts?

                            Damn, what a way to water down a thematic idea... I'd be disappointed with that...
                            No, it's still specifically a Lunar-Solar thing. The Lunar spread in the Ex3 core talks about how their relationship with Solars was central to their identity in the First Age, and that the reconfiguration of their Castes after the Usurpation and the deep - seated rage common to them now were both reactions to losing it -- the former a deliberate choice to be a new people in a new Age, but the latter simply a result of the new void where once there was partnership.


                            Glorious Solar Kitten

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The problem with Solar Essences is that they come with memories from the previous incarnation. It is a common trait in Celestial Essences, but it is particularly important for the Solar Exalted because they may remember the fell pleasures from torturing and violating their Lunar spouses (the theme of extreme physical and psychological abuse is a common one when discussing the relationships, look at the relationship of Lilith and Desus in the First Age). While there are the few Solar Exalted who are blessed without the memories of their previous incarnations, who were the few Solar Exalted who experienced hundreds of incarnations because their Essences were not trapped within the Jade Prison, or who were the few Solar Exalted who actually loved their Lunar consorts, the majority of Solar Exalted should be haunted by the horrible things that they did to their Lunar consorts in their previous incarnation (as well as the horrible things that they did to everyone else as they devolved into corrupted God-Kings).

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X