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How much should Castes actually matter to the Lunar Exalted?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
    I might just have to make myself a Changing Moon based off of Scrooge. That bit with the head, man… >.>
    He's a Changing Moon, but he's also tougher than the toughies and smarter than the smarties.


    Neall Raemonn Price
    Beleaguered Scion Developer

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Neall View Post
      I honestly think you're digging a Scrooge McDuck-style rut in the ground about Lunars
      You're right.


      And yes, the new Duck Tales, like the new Voltron, has everything good about the original, and more besides.


      Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

      My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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      • #63
        DuckTales? Please.


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        • #64
          Scrooge is very much an Eclipse who might, at most, be a beast-folk, I feel.


          Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

          My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Neall View Post
            He's a Changing Moon, but he's also tougher than the toughies and smarter than the smarties.
            Not to mention strong enough to swim in gold.

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            • #66
              Much of this thread has been predicated on the Full Moon Attributes being solely Strength, Dexterity, and Stamina. However, given the Solar Ability spreads, it seems fair to anticipate a broader Lunar Attribute spread. Full Moons may be pick 3 of Strength, Dexterity, Stamina, and Wits. Which spreads the warrior-themed love around. Similar one-Attribute additions to the spreads we think of as Trickster and Shaman could be imagined.


              Exalted Fanfiction on AO3 that I have authored. A Lunar oral history, a Solar buddy-fiction, and other story hooks.

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              • #67
                Possibly. But IIRC the solars caste ability expansion was done to make Dawns actually good at combat this time around. They might not feel a need to fix lunars the same way.

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                • #68
                  While I'm fine with them getting more choices, I kind of hope Full Moons get something else (though Wits I admit seems likely). Perception maybe (in 2nd ed, Appearance would have been most appropriate, because it was the most physical, but maybe not in 3rd ed).

                  Wits would seem more appropriate for Tricksters, because they're so cunning.

                  (Not sure what's appropriate for Shamans... Charisma?)

                  To be honest though, I've not seen anyone come up with a good attribute spread for Lunars. While different people would have probably come up with slightly different spreads for Solars, a lot of them were pretty obvious (of course Twilights get Bureaucracy and Linguistics, and of course Eclipses get Occult and Presence). For Lunars, it's much harder, because of the smaller number, the way you balance between 3 castes rather than 5, etc.

                  In 2nd ed, we house-ruled that you just picked 2 of the 3 caste attributes, and had 2 favoured attributes (like how Solars get the same number of favoured and caste attrubutes). That worked well. So the Elephant-totem Full Moon can take Str/Sta/Per/Int as his favoured/caste attributes, because those are more appropriate for an elephant-totem Lunar.

                  Or, honestly, you could just have the 3 caste attributes and 2 favoured attributes.

                  Or, if Sunder is right, and Warrior/Trickster/Shaman charms are quite distinct, they could have a Dawn-solution keyword. So Join Battle charms have a "Warrior" tag, the Wits charms for tricking people have a "Trickster" tag, some Charisma charms for talking to spirits have a "Shaman" tag, etc, which makes them cheaper.
                  Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 10-12-2017, 11:11 AM.


                  "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                    Possibly. But IIRC the solars caste ability expansion was done to make Dawns actually good at combat this time around. They might not feel a need to fix lunars the same way.
                    True. Only getting to choose 1 thing outside your caste's spread was a bit restrictive though.

                    IIRC, Alchemicals got like 3 caste attributes and 3 favoured attributes (out of 9), or something like that.

                    Edit: I just checked. They did indeed get 3 caste attributes and 3 favoured attributes. And their dots were distributed 8 into caste, 6 into favoured, and 4 into non-favoured. Which has both good and bad effects.
                    Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 10-12-2017, 11:16 AM.


                    "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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                    • #70
                      Do you think 5 caste (pick 3) + 3 favoured would be too much? Alchemicals got 3 caste and 3 favoured and they worked pretty well.

                      Edit: You ninja'd my post mentioning alchies to mention alchies.

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                      • #71
                        I do actually think it's too much: at that point, 95% of your charms are going to be favoured. You might as well just say every attribute is favoured and call it a day.

                        6 caste/favoured attributes is the equivalent of Solars having 17 caste/favoured abilities.

                        4 out of 9 is about right (that's actually slightly more, percentage-wise, than Solars get), it's just been a bit awkward to have 3/4 of them chosen for you (rather than half for Solars).

                        DBs of course had 5/8 chosen, but a) the ones chosen for them were very varied (everyone had at least 1 combat and 1 social ability, for example), b)DBs are the lowest-powered exalts anyway, and c)that's still more choice than Lunars.

                        So they just need a bit more flexibility to fit into concepts. It's pretty common that your concept and totem seems to fit with two attributes that are outside your caste.

                        Choosing 3 out of 5 caste attributes and then 1 favoured would be fine I guess. Not sure how keen I am on No Moons with Wits favoured but not Intelligence or Wits, or the equivalent, but I guess it's okay.
                        Though, tbh, 2 caste attributes out of 3 and 2 favoured attributes probably works better. Lunars, I assume, won't have a supernal anyway, so there's no real need to ensure the equivalent to making sure at Eclipse diplomats can have Presence Supernal and Zenith leaders can have War supernal.
                        Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 10-12-2017, 12:20 PM.


                        "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post

                          True. Only getting to choose 1 thing outside your caste's spread was a bit restrictive though.

                          IIRC, Alchemicals got like 3 caste attributes and 3 favoured attributes (out of 9), or something like that.

                          Edit: I just checked. They did indeed get 3 caste attributes and 3 favoured attributes. And their dots were distributed 8 into caste, 6 into favoured, and 4 into non-favoured. Which has both good and bad effects.
                          I ran the math for our Autochthonia game and figured out that if you wanted to to go full bore on specializing into physical, mental, or social traits, Alchemicals have the ability to get 5 dots in all three at char gen at a discount of at least 40xp as I recall. That's an additional 5 charms (or 10 alchemical priced charms) that the solar can't buy if he wants those traits at max. I seriously doubt that Alchemical char gen is going to stay the same this time around.

                          What I'd do with Lunars is:

                          Full moon (pick 3) - Strength, Dexterity, Stamina, Intelligence, Appearance.
                          Changing Moon (pick 3) - Charisma, Manipulation, Appearance, Dexterity, Wits
                          No Moon (pick 3) - Intelligence, Wits, Perception, Stamina, Charisma

                          and 1 favored as well.

                          Assign points the same way solars do with a few extra for caste/favored (maybe 3 dots)

                          Gives you a pretty broad spread without making everything super cheap.

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                          • #73
                            I'd have Perception instead of Intelligence for Full Moons, but the basic principle is fine.

                            (I don't think there's any great reason for No Moons to have Stamina, but neither would there be for Strength or Dex, and you probably want 1 of each of the other attribute sets for each caste)


                            Admittedly though, I still feel it'd be easier, rather than say :
                            Pick 3 out of 5 caste attributes (which means you can then have a Trickster who favours neither Manipulation or Charisma, which is a bit odd, though not totally awful)
                            Pick 1 favoured attributes

                            Iinstead just say:
                            Pick 2 out of 3 caste attributes
                            Pick 2 favoured attributes

                            It's more flexible overall while still requiring you to have at least 2 of the original attributes, and if Lunars don't have Supernals, there's no functional difference between caste and favoured anyway. That's what we've been using for years in my group (it was originally suggested by the guy who wrote the 2nd ed Lunar charms, as he felt the Lunar char gen was underpowered and inflexible).

                            Also, you have the same number of caste and favoured, like Solars do.

                            And it saves on arguing about which other attribute is most appropriate for which caste.
                            Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 10-12-2017, 01:56 PM.


                            "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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                            • #74
                              I'd probably go for Wits for Full Moons for Join Battle purposes. But looking at it, yeah, 2 and 2 seems easier.

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                              • #75
                                There isn't a single Lunar Caste that doesn't benefit from Perception.

                                Changing Moons want to know what Intimacies they can target, and Full Moons want to track their prey, see where it hides, and strike it even on the other side of the immaterial chasm.


                                Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                                My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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