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  • Metropoli and patropoli

    Has anyone had an Alchemical game continue to involve a PC after he or she became a city? If so, how?

    On a related note, now that the top of the Essence scale has been reduced from 10 to 5, will Alchemicals in 3E now transform into cities at Essence 4? Or will the whole idea be done away with?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Hakkonen View Post
    On a related note, now that the top of the Essence scale has been reduced from 10 to 5
    No it hasn't. Quite apart from how the sidebar describing Essence mentions it going beyond 5, there are actually a couple of Solar Charms that describe their own possible Essence 6+ upgrades.

    ​It's just beyond the scope of most games.

    ​Much like turning into a city was.


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    • #3
      We have no idea whether Metropoli/Patropoli will still be a thing, and tbh, I doubt the devs do either: Alchemicals is years away.

      But anyhow, Isator is right, Essence 6+ still exists, it's just that it's not something games are expected to need (and I think possibly it was mentioned that it wouldn't increase your ability/attribute caps anymore?).

      I think it'd still be fine for Essence 6 Alchemicals to turn into cities, because it's virtually never going to come up in a game. I haven't ever heard of anyone playing Alchemicals for long enough that they became cities.


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      • #4
        I've heard people make references to using drone bodies as a way of letting them continue to take part in the group, although I cannot recall if that was a first hand experience, or just pointing some out.


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        • #5
          I ran an Alchemicals game where two of the players became warstrider sized and occasionally needed to use drone bodies to interact on a human scale. Never actually had PC's turn into cities though.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
            I've heard people make references to using drone bodies as a way of letting them continue to take part in the group, although I cannot recall if that was a first hand experience, or just pointing some out.
            There is mention in the MoEP about a Municipal Charm that creates for them a human sized puppet body thry use to interact with humans. Though, bo mention of if it can use Charms or would just be like a mortal or automaton.

            I like the idea though. Makes the city consciousness kind of like Rommie from Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda

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            • #7
              Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
              We have no idea whether Metropoli/Patropoli will still be a thing, and tbh, I doubt the devs do either: Alchemicals is years away.

              But anyhow, Isator is right, Essence 6+ still exists, it's just that it's not something games are expected to need (and I think possibly it was mentioned that it wouldn't increase your ability/attribute caps anymore?).
              That and there won't be cascades of higher essence Charms. High Essence Exalted can be expected to have 1 or 2 unique signature powers as high essence Charms, but that's it.

              Given that that's the case with other Exalted, Alchemicals presumably won't be able to get a TON of upgrades at higher essence and remain balanced, so - given the lower starting Essence in 3E - I'd strongly speculate that colossi will happen at Essence 4-5 this time, and can be integrated right into the core charmset of the Alchemicals. Then Municipal Alchemicals happen at Essence 6 rather than Essence 8 (which would seem to fit their numbers better), and any giant power upgrades at that point come with playability trade-offs (players not wanting to make that step reflecting Alchemicals' own fears about it and choosing to stay at Essence 5).


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              • #8
                I think turning into cities at Essence 6, is probably a fine level: out of the normal experience for most characters, but fine for the occasional very high-essence game experience.


                Possibly optional though, rather than mandatory. Could be awkward otherwise.


                Hmmm... anyone remember how many Metropoli/Patropoli there are in Autocthon currently? I remember there being about 3-4 per nation, plus 2 free ones, but it might have just been 3-4 mentioned.

                Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
                I ran an Alchemicals game where two of the players became warstrider sized and occasionally needed to use drone bodies to interact on a human scale. Never actually had PC's turn into cities though.
                How well did it work? I wondered if the players being warstrider-size would be really awkward in Autocthon's tunnels. More so even than it'd be in Creation.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                  Hmmm... anyone remember how many Metropoli/Patropoli there are in Autocthon currently? I remember there being about 3-4 per nation, plus 2 free ones, but it might have just been 3-4 mentioned.
                  A number I see a lot is about 1000 Alchemicals with roughly 100 cities.

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                  • #10
                    100? That's a ton of Essence 8 alchemicals... You'd definitely need to bring it at least down to essence 6 (and that's still quite a lot... but I guess it's 100 out of nearly all the Alchemicals ever, since once you're a city you're pretty safe).


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                    • #11
                      Personally I think Alchemicals' development post essence 5 is sufficiently divorced from how exalted normally work to keep it as it was.

                      Essentially, alchemicals have always been limited to 5 dots of essence. That's the core of the game. The essence 6+ stuff turns them into... something else. And municipal charms aren't really essence 8+ charms as we know them. They're infrastructure.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                        100? That's a ton of Essence 8 alchemicals... You'd definitely need to bring it at least down to essence 6 (and that's still quite a lot... but I guess it's 100 out of nearly all the Alchemicals ever, since once you're a city you're pretty safe).
                        There are two destroyed cities explicitly talked about, Ixut and Perygra. No one is certain what destroyed Ixut, though popular theories are the Maker's immune system, the Adamants, or Mog. Perygra was destroyed by an immune reaction. Even the Viator didn't actually destroy any cities.

                        So yeah, pretty difficult to take out. The number would be higher, but both Champions on the verge of becoming Colossi and Colossi on the verge of becoming Poli often delay and sometimes die.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by vampire hunter D View Post
                          There is mention in the MoEP about a Municipal Charm that creates for them a human sized puppet body thry use to interact with humans. Though, bo mention of if it can use Charms or would just be like a mortal or automaton.

                          I like the idea though. Makes the city consciousness kind of like Rommie from Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda
                          If I remember the Charm's description correctly, Avatar-Launching Silo makes a copy of the City's former Champion or Colossus form, complete with Charms, and uses an Intimacy as the growth point for its intelligence. Given the description, you could theoretically have a game where the whole circle is actually all aspects of the same patropolis.

                          Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                          Hmmm... anyone remember how many Metropoli/Patropoli there are in Autocthon currently? I remember there being about 3-4 per nation, plus 2 free ones, but it might have just been 3-4 mentioned.
                          There are five Adamant theopoli, the two proto-nations, two or three cities described in detail per member of the Octet, and mentions of further cities, especially in the bigger, richer nations. Jarish only has its two cities and has the fewest of the Octet. Roughly 100 cities mentioned below sounds about right from the text.

                          How well did it work? I wondered if the players being warstrider-size would be really awkward in Autocthon's tunnels. More so even than it'd be in Creation.
                          Autochthonia has a whole lot of huge cavities. Several of the Octet have set up in cavities over a hundred miles across and high enough that airships are viable transport methods. It's not all cramped spaces.



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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Exthalion View Post

                            A number I see a lot is about 1000 Alchemicals with roughly 100 cities.
                            There are around 50 cities.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Exthalion View Post

                              There are two destroyed cities explicitly talked about, Ixut and Perygra. No one is certain what destroyed Ixut, though popular theories are the Maker's immune system, the Adamants, or Mog. Perygra was destroyed by an immune reaction. Even the Viator didn't actually destroy any cities.
                              I think you'll find that all true patriotic Sovans know exactly who is responsible for Ixut's destruction. Yugash! They were jealous of Sova's success and love of family. That's why they cruelly attacked and destroyed Ixut. Thus, sorrowfully, Sova was forced to declare war against Yugash. Stunning victories sent the Yugashi reeling, and they fled before Sovan vengeance, unable to destroy anymore Sovan cities.

                              This "adamants" theory doesn't even make grammatical sense. Adamant is not a countable noun. Just like you wouldn't say it was the fault of "steels" or "golds". How could a kind of rock destroy a city?


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