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how long did the primordial war lasted?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
    Actually generally yes they did send essence 2-3 out to fight in the Primordial War. This wasn't a conflict where they were going to get a luxury of keeping major war assets (and let's face it that's every exalt) out of the war for over 100 years just so they could hit essence 6. Not to mention that's part of why one would generally pick exceptional individuals to exalt, super powers are going to people who are already pretty good at something and can extrapolate out from there. Though there was probably a fair amount of prep time for things like information gathering, strategy, and making sure DB bloodlines had actually managed to have a generation or two and not have it where you kill the first gen and that's it for the DB exalted.
    or, you hide the exalted inside autochthonon and the other side is not aware a war is going of for at teast a few centuries

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    • #17
      Originally posted by mark View Post

      or, you hide the exalted inside autochthonon and the other side is not aware a war is going of for at teast a few centuries
      No see that's called prep time, and would still end up with large amounts of essence 2-3 exalts fighting the war ,if we go with 2nd's thing of exalting putting you at essence two and not 3rd's thing of new exalts being essence 1, unless you go with the idea that the fighting was done in under a week. With either zero fatalities or no reincarnations happening in enough time to make the war. Which would just be asinine. Oh and because I'm 95% sure we did have dev's saying that the majority of the primordial war was fought with exalts who weren't even essence 5.

      Plus we already know what Auto did in the Primordial war and it wasn't function as a base for the pointless task of waiting for exalts to be essence 6+.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
        No see that's called prep time, and would still end up with large amounts of essence 2-3 exalts fighting the war ,if we go with 2nd's thing of exalting putting you at essence two and not 3rd's thing of new exalts being essence 1, unless you go with the idea that the fighting was done in under a week. With either zero fatalities or no reincarnations happening in enough time to make the war. Which would just be asinine. Oh and because I'm 95% sure we did have dev's saying that the majority of the primordial war was fought with exalts who weren't even essence 5.

        Plus we already know what Auto did in the Primordial war and it wasn't function as a base for the pointless task of waiting for exalts to be essence 6+.
        oh, i have no doubt that the majority of the exalted might have been essence 4 or so and maybe 5 later on. rather that they need some time to learn some charms. you don't need a ridiculous amount(exalted runs on boring but practical and is an inversion of the quadratic wizard thing) but you do need a reasonable amount of excellencies ,perfects(especially defenses) and a the rest of the "no kidding these will save your life and youre screwed without them" basic charms(many of whom are ironically quite down the list but im assuming some degree of min-maxing in a freaking war). beyond that have a million more charms would be helpful but not essential

        funny how in exalted the flashier stuff tends to be the least important

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        • #19
          Originally posted by mark View Post
          seriously? even so all the essence of the world is useless without high attributes,abilities, and you know, actual charms
          And all the Essence, Attributes, Abilities, and Charms in existence are meaningless when you don't go out and use them.

          (I'd also argue that if the Exalted absolutely needed to be Essence 3+ to fight in the Primordial War, they probably wouldn't have won, regardless of any hiding places they might have had access to.)

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          • #20
            Not to mention actual experience would be necessary due to wonderful things like plans inherently going to pot, because that's just kind of what happens to plans in a war.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by mark View Post
              exalted runs on boring but practical

              ....

              funny how in exalted the flashier stuff tends to be the least important
              You are super running on Second Edition logic.

              Which is a significant part of why we have a Third Edition.


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              • #22
                Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                You are super running on Second Edition logic.

                Which is a significant part of why we have a Third Edition.
                to be honest i started exalted a few months before the third edition came in. even bought most of the books. since it took me a while to learn the setting and its rules i don't really see any need to starting playing 3e right now. not only does it have fewer supplements but 2e is still new for me and not something that i had been doing for 9 years and i need to change

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by mark View Post
                  to be honest i started exalted a few months before the third edition came in. even bought most of the books. since it took me a while to learn the setting and its rules i don't really see any need to starting playing 3e right now. not only does it have fewer supplements but 2e is still new for me and not something that i had been doing for 9 years and i need to change
                  This is why I asked before. Being on the same page will help with discussion.

                  ​And I honestly want to discuss things in helpful terms.

                  ​So, while even Second Edition did not elaborate heavily on the Primordial War, something in its tone and maybe a couple of references had the idea of the gods training the Exalted more directly for the sake of deploying them for war more rapidly. After all, part of the idea of the Primordial War can be that it entails the combined resources of the Exalted and most of the gods, so young Exalted wouldn't necessarily have needed to be making it on their own. If, once the war really gets going and the Primordials are paying attention, young Exalted need a bit of a leg up to get into some of the most significant theatres, they don't need to spend time adventuring in hiding for that; Autochthon and the Jadeborn can equip them with powerful weapons, and various kinds of god can bestow blessing and training to speed along their development.


                  I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                  Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by mark View Post
                    to be honest i started exalted a few months before the third edition came in. even bought most of the books. since it took me a while to learn the setting and its rules i don't really see any need to starting playing 3e right now. not only does it have fewer supplements but 2e is still new for me and not something that i had been doing for 9 years and i need to change

                    The problem is, alot of the assumptions your making on the nature of the war, the nature of exalted, and the nature of the Primodials is rooted in 2e logic that is no longer true in 3e. Which means if your like me (and bought alot of 2e for lore, never worked out how to make it work, and then started 3 games in 3e), alot of your counterarguments make no sense.

                    In 3e, an Essence 1 exalt has the capacity to take on and challenge the components of a Yozi (a 2nd cricle demon). Depending on their supernal, a Solar might actually have decent odds of winning. In 2e, this was not the case form what I can tell, and at the very least 2e a)lacks supernals and b) has a huge amount of essence creep towards the end of its run. It appears (Again having not been able to get a group for it) to have a signifcantly more binary combat system as well.

                    I put the length of the war as fairly long, if only because the quests needed to unmake the tyrant gods of existence seem to require a fairly long time to accomplish. Chaoskampf/MonsterSlaying quests seem appropiate here for reference. Maya Hero Twins vs Seven Makaw, the Monster Slaying Navajo Twins, some versions of King Gesar, and so one. The war with the primodials was a war to establish conditions better for the gods and humanity (whether a success or failure is for sidereals and infernals to debate), and this means a war of both literal battles and more esoteric ones. Breaking the hearts of Primodials, wrapping them in ancient koans, and so on. The length of the war was probably hard to determine...until it was done, and time was set in stone.


                    I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.

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                    • #25
                      Even in 2e, the bread and butter was all available at chargen.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                        Or perhaps he spent centuries' worth of time in a manse where time flows significantly faster. Or got hit with an aging curse by an angry god. Or traded away a thousand years of his life in Plentimon's casino. Perhaps a Lunar tricked him into taking two bites of a peach of mortality. Or a hundred other options.
                        And unless I'm misremembering, there's nothing saying he was the first Exalt, just the first to die of old age. So that means there's also a very strong possibility that the Solars all died of unnatural causes before he died of old age (ie, he could've been Exalted in the last century of the war, and all the Solars exalted before him were killed in some fashion or assassinated during their reign or whatever) So his age doesn't really tell us anything about how long the Primordial War lasted.


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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by HalfTangible View Post

                          And unless I'm misremembering, there's nothing saying he was the first Exalt, just the first to die of old age. So that means there's also a very strong possibility that the Solars all died of unnatural causes before he died of old age (ie, he could've been Exalted in the last century of the war, and all the Solars exalted before him were killed in some fashion or assassinated during their reign or whatever) So his age doesn't really tell us anything about how long the Primordial War lasted.
                          He wasn't, he was only the first Solar to die of old age.

                          As far as using deaths to figure it out it doesn't really work out. While I think there are few exalts listed as survivors of the Primordial War running around the First Age (possibly longer if I'm remembering the bit about Rakan Thulio being a survivor of that war correctly,) as we're not given a post for when they entered the war and how far into the first Age they died then they can't be used to judge how long the war lasted. I mean you could ask First and Forsaken Lion, but he's got that whole Deathlord thing going around and I hear he's been kind of techy since around the Balorian Crusades.

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                          • #28
                            Thinking about the subject concerning Second Edition and with inspiration from an article I recently read concerning warfare in science fiction, I think there are two subjects that should be significant to conceiving the Primordial War.

                            ​First was the idea that their Excellencies represented not only what they excelled at and strived towards, but were limited to. The very earliest Exalted could be regarded as having received some instruction or having their own insight on how to work within some conceptual blind spots.

                            ​The other is consideration for any strange and mystical ways in which Primordials might be expected to conduct warfare, any unusual frontiers they might be fought on, which could represent an obstacle for them simply stomping upon the earth until everything offensive to them is dead.

                            ​Admittedly, the latter is not helped by some decisions on how to represent the actual presence of a Primordial. You have the Ebon Dragon, cunning, eldritch, the five elemental nemesis and violator of boundaries, and the conception of him marching to war is... a giant monster that can shoot big explosions?

                            ​Sure it had the idea of adding an Imperfection making him highly vulnerable to channelled Virtues, and emphasized things such as his definitively low Valour and Conviction, but that kind of amounts more to a slight novelty in being the one who fights the big gribbly monster off, rather than his own methods of fighting.


                            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                            Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                            https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Epee102 View Post


                              The problem is, alot of the assumptions your making on the nature of the war, the nature of exalted, and the nature of the Primodials is rooted in 2e logic that is no longer true in 3e. Which means if your like me (and bought alot of 2e for lore, never worked out how to make it work, and then started 3 games in 3e), alot of your counterarguments make no sense.

                              In 3e, an Essence 1 exalt has the capacity to take on and challenge the components of a Yozi (a 2nd cricle demon). Depending on their supernal, a Solar might actually have decent odds of winning. In 2e, this was not the case form what I can tell, and at the very least 2e a)lacks supernals and b) has a huge amount of essence creep towards the end of its run. It appears (Again having not been able to get a group for it) to have a signifcantly more binary combat system as well.

                              I put the length of the war as fairly long, if only because the quests needed to unmake the tyrant gods of existence seem to require a fairly long time to accomplish. Chaoskampf/MonsterSlaying quests seem appropiate here for reference. Maya Hero Twins vs Seven Makaw, the Monster Slaying Navajo Twins, some versions of King Gesar, and so one. The war with the primodials was a war to establish conditions better for the gods and humanity (whether a success or failure is for sidereals and infernals to debate), and this means a war of both literal battles and more esoteric ones. Breaking the hearts of Primodials, wrapping them in ancient koans, and so on. The length of the war was probably hard to determine...until it was done, and time was set in stone.
                              Actually you could take on 2nd circles early on as a Solar, because perfects are cheap. They even had Dace Kill Stanewald partly to show this.


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                              • #30
                                concerning the solar who died of old age. i really doubt he spent any time in immortality manses or whatever since the solars thought themselves immortal. also there was an exalted who was born(as of 3200 or so i think) over 4 thousand years ago. so i think this settles it for whether or not the war lasted centuries

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