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how long did the primordial war lasted?

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  • mark
    started a topic how long did the primordial war lasted?

    how long did the primordial war lasted?

    i know it lasted at least centuries. also based on what we know of primordial power(e.g the ebon dragon) how long after exaltation would it take for the exalted to come out of hiding?

  • Epee102
    replied
    As the gentleman who brought up the solar's death, I concede it is entirely useless

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  • nalak42
    replied
    Originally posted by mark View Post
    concerning the solar who died of old age. i really doubt he spent any time in immortality manses or whatever since the solars thought themselves immortal. also there was an exalted who was born(as of 3200 or so i think) over 4 thousand years ago. so i think this settles it for whether or not the war lasted centuries
    Considering calendars change I'm not seeing how a specific timeframe for someone's birth, in abscence of other details, proves anything. Particularly considering I'm guessing you're talking about Leviathan. Doesn't really help since most timelines I've seen view year 0 or 1 as the year the Primordials surrendered, so it isn't like Leviathan was born was 3000 years after Creation was made.

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  • mark
    replied
    concerning the solar who died of old age. i really doubt he spent any time in immortality manses or whatever since the solars thought themselves immortal. also there was an exalted who was born(as of 3200 or so i think) over 4 thousand years ago. so i think this settles it for whether or not the war lasted centuries

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Originally posted by Epee102 View Post


    The problem is, alot of the assumptions your making on the nature of the war, the nature of exalted, and the nature of the Primodials is rooted in 2e logic that is no longer true in 3e. Which means if your like me (and bought alot of 2e for lore, never worked out how to make it work, and then started 3 games in 3e), alot of your counterarguments make no sense.

    In 3e, an Essence 1 exalt has the capacity to take on and challenge the components of a Yozi (a 2nd cricle demon). Depending on their supernal, a Solar might actually have decent odds of winning. In 2e, this was not the case form what I can tell, and at the very least 2e a)lacks supernals and b) has a huge amount of essence creep towards the end of its run. It appears (Again having not been able to get a group for it) to have a signifcantly more binary combat system as well.

    I put the length of the war as fairly long, if only because the quests needed to unmake the tyrant gods of existence seem to require a fairly long time to accomplish. Chaoskampf/MonsterSlaying quests seem appropiate here for reference. Maya Hero Twins vs Seven Makaw, the Monster Slaying Navajo Twins, some versions of King Gesar, and so one. The war with the primodials was a war to establish conditions better for the gods and humanity (whether a success or failure is for sidereals and infernals to debate), and this means a war of both literal battles and more esoteric ones. Breaking the hearts of Primodials, wrapping them in ancient koans, and so on. The length of the war was probably hard to determine...until it was done, and time was set in stone.
    Actually you could take on 2nd circles early on as a Solar, because perfects are cheap. They even had Dace Kill Stanewald partly to show this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Thinking about the subject concerning Second Edition and with inspiration from an article I recently read concerning warfare in science fiction, I think there are two subjects that should be significant to conceiving the Primordial War.

    ​First was the idea that their Excellencies represented not only what they excelled at and strived towards, but were limited to. The very earliest Exalted could be regarded as having received some instruction or having their own insight on how to work within some conceptual blind spots.

    ​The other is consideration for any strange and mystical ways in which Primordials might be expected to conduct warfare, any unusual frontiers they might be fought on, which could represent an obstacle for them simply stomping upon the earth until everything offensive to them is dead.

    ​Admittedly, the latter is not helped by some decisions on how to represent the actual presence of a Primordial. You have the Ebon Dragon, cunning, eldritch, the five elemental nemesis and violator of boundaries, and the conception of him marching to war is... a giant monster that can shoot big explosions?

    ​Sure it had the idea of adding an Imperfection making him highly vulnerable to channelled Virtues, and emphasized things such as his definitively low Valour and Conviction, but that kind of amounts more to a slight novelty in being the one who fights the big gribbly monster off, rather than his own methods of fighting.

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  • nalak42
    replied
    Originally posted by HalfTangible View Post

    And unless I'm misremembering, there's nothing saying he was the first Exalt, just the first to die of old age. So that means there's also a very strong possibility that the Solars all died of unnatural causes before he died of old age (ie, he could've been Exalted in the last century of the war, and all the Solars exalted before him were killed in some fashion or assassinated during their reign or whatever) So his age doesn't really tell us anything about how long the Primordial War lasted.
    He wasn't, he was only the first Solar to die of old age.

    As far as using deaths to figure it out it doesn't really work out. While I think there are few exalts listed as survivors of the Primordial War running around the First Age (possibly longer if I'm remembering the bit about Rakan Thulio being a survivor of that war correctly,) as we're not given a post for when they entered the war and how far into the first Age they died then they can't be used to judge how long the war lasted. I mean you could ask First and Forsaken Lion, but he's got that whole Deathlord thing going around and I hear he's been kind of techy since around the Balorian Crusades.

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  • HalfTangible
    replied
    Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
    Or perhaps he spent centuries' worth of time in a manse where time flows significantly faster. Or got hit with an aging curse by an angry god. Or traded away a thousand years of his life in Plentimon's casino. Perhaps a Lunar tricked him into taking two bites of a peach of mortality. Or a hundred other options.
    And unless I'm misremembering, there's nothing saying he was the first Exalt, just the first to die of old age. So that means there's also a very strong possibility that the Solars all died of unnatural causes before he died of old age (ie, he could've been Exalted in the last century of the war, and all the Solars exalted before him were killed in some fashion or assassinated during their reign or whatever) So his age doesn't really tell us anything about how long the Primordial War lasted.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCountAlucard
    replied
    Even in 2e, the bread and butter was all available at chargen.

    Leave a comment:


  • Epee102
    replied
    Originally posted by mark View Post
    to be honest i started exalted a few months before the third edition came in. even bought most of the books. since it took me a while to learn the setting and its rules i don't really see any need to starting playing 3e right now. not only does it have fewer supplements but 2e is still new for me and not something that i had been doing for 9 years and i need to change

    The problem is, alot of the assumptions your making on the nature of the war, the nature of exalted, and the nature of the Primodials is rooted in 2e logic that is no longer true in 3e. Which means if your like me (and bought alot of 2e for lore, never worked out how to make it work, and then started 3 games in 3e), alot of your counterarguments make no sense.

    In 3e, an Essence 1 exalt has the capacity to take on and challenge the components of a Yozi (a 2nd cricle demon). Depending on their supernal, a Solar might actually have decent odds of winning. In 2e, this was not the case form what I can tell, and at the very least 2e a)lacks supernals and b) has a huge amount of essence creep towards the end of its run. It appears (Again having not been able to get a group for it) to have a signifcantly more binary combat system as well.

    I put the length of the war as fairly long, if only because the quests needed to unmake the tyrant gods of existence seem to require a fairly long time to accomplish. Chaoskampf/MonsterSlaying quests seem appropiate here for reference. Maya Hero Twins vs Seven Makaw, the Monster Slaying Navajo Twins, some versions of King Gesar, and so one. The war with the primodials was a war to establish conditions better for the gods and humanity (whether a success or failure is for sidereals and infernals to debate), and this means a war of both literal battles and more esoteric ones. Breaking the hearts of Primodials, wrapping them in ancient koans, and so on. The length of the war was probably hard to determine...until it was done, and time was set in stone.

    Leave a comment:


  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by mark View Post
    to be honest i started exalted a few months before the third edition came in. even bought most of the books. since it took me a while to learn the setting and its rules i don't really see any need to starting playing 3e right now. not only does it have fewer supplements but 2e is still new for me and not something that i had been doing for 9 years and i need to change
    This is why I asked before. Being on the same page will help with discussion.

    ​And I honestly want to discuss things in helpful terms.

    ​So, while even Second Edition did not elaborate heavily on the Primordial War, something in its tone and maybe a couple of references had the idea of the gods training the Exalted more directly for the sake of deploying them for war more rapidly. After all, part of the idea of the Primordial War can be that it entails the combined resources of the Exalted and most of the gods, so young Exalted wouldn't necessarily have needed to be making it on their own. If, once the war really gets going and the Primordials are paying attention, young Exalted need a bit of a leg up to get into some of the most significant theatres, they don't need to spend time adventuring in hiding for that; Autochthon and the Jadeborn can equip them with powerful weapons, and various kinds of god can bestow blessing and training to speed along their development.

    Leave a comment:


  • mark
    replied
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

    You are super running on Second Edition logic.

    Which is a significant part of why we have a Third Edition.
    to be honest i started exalted a few months before the third edition came in. even bought most of the books. since it took me a while to learn the setting and its rules i don't really see any need to starting playing 3e right now. not only does it have fewer supplements but 2e is still new for me and not something that i had been doing for 9 years and i need to change

    Leave a comment:


  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by mark View Post
    exalted runs on boring but practical

    ....

    funny how in exalted the flashier stuff tends to be the least important
    You are super running on Second Edition logic.

    Which is a significant part of why we have a Third Edition.

    Leave a comment:


  • nalak42
    replied
    Not to mention actual experience would be necessary due to wonderful things like plans inherently going to pot, because that's just kind of what happens to plans in a war.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCountAlucard
    replied
    Originally posted by mark View Post
    seriously? even so all the essence of the world is useless without high attributes,abilities, and you know, actual charms
    And all the Essence, Attributes, Abilities, and Charms in existence are meaningless when you don't go out and use them.

    (I'd also argue that if the Exalted absolutely needed to be Essence 3+ to fight in the Primordial War, they probably wouldn't have won, regardless of any hiding places they might have had access to.)

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