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Exalted Charmset Theses in One Word & Sentence

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  • #46
    Originally posted by aluminiumtrioxid View Post
    Yet I don't think it would be out of theme for a Lunar speed Charm to apply on rushes, disengages and out of combat tests of speed alike
    Except you'd get one weak Charm instead of three better Charms, leading to a smaller and less impressive Charmset overall.


    nor do I think anything would break if their "see dematerialized creatures" Charm also gave them a bonus on read intentions and profile character actions against spirits.
    Or they could just have a single "read intentions" Charm that works really well on anyone Lunars can see, including spirits they see with the "See Spirits" Charm.


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    • #47
      Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
      Except you'd get one weak Charm instead of three better Charms, leading to a smaller and less impressive Charmset overall.

      That is a blatantly wrong assumption to make. Partially because there are Charms and repurchases that permanently upgrade other Charms, and partially because the existence of Charm A (which is a general-purpose speed enhancement) implies nothing about the existence of yet-unrevealed Charms B, C and D, which are more narrow and specialized in effect. Hell, this is literally the design logic behind the E1 -> E2 progression of Charms in the Solar set!


      Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
      Or they could just have a single "read intentions" Charm that works really well on anyone Lunars can see, including spirits they see with the "See Spirits" Charm.

      ...Is the idea of a Lunar shaman who is really good at social interaction with spirits but kinda sucks at the same against other people anathema to you?


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      • #48
        Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
        "Root of their power" would have been a very clear way to phrase things, except that the root of Exalted power is more accurately Exaltation itself.

        But then, one of the sticking points of this mess has been the difference between the Exalted as a whole and the Charmsets of the Exalted in specific. Charmsets are of the Exalted, but do not represent the whole of the Exalted.
        I dunno, to me trying to separate the exaltation of one type of exalted from their charmsets is an exercise in semantics anyway.

        Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
        But plenty of Sidereal Charms have nothing to do with advising or teaching, whereas no Sidereal Charm exists that doesn't manipulate Fate in some way.

        Not all aesthetics / themes / sources are equal, and I sought the most inextricable element.
        While we agree that Sidereal charms almost always contain the element of fate, I think I would argue that what they actually deal with is natural laws. What I mean is if the Sidereals were only about fate or even inextricably linked to fate, they would be powerless outside of fate.

        Even if the Sidereals have 'fate' as an inextricable element that doesn't mean that losing all the other elements doesn't significantly diminish the breadth of them. You lose all of the nuance that defines them and their role in the setting. Regardless, not all exalted are focused that specifically around a single idea. Even the Dragon Bloods only rely on the metaphysical aspects of elements rather than their direct applications of them. If all the DB was was 'elementalists' then they'd be benders from Avatar: The Last Airbender but with all of them having access to all elements. They've got so much more potential than that.

        Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
        The point isn't to constrain possibilities or lay claim to all possibilities. The point is to find the one inescapable foundation and to compare those foundations against each other.
        And yet, I dread the thought of any potential writer for the line ever encountering this thread and taking it to heart. Forcing each exalt type to choose one aspect that defines everything that they do removes the potential for having exalts with aesthetics balanced around multiple aesthetics and themes.

        I think this is actually where a lot of 2E fell down was when some writers took this thinking to heart.

        Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
        There will probably never be a Liminal Charm that doesn't involve Blood, Breath, Flesh, Marrow, or Soil in some way.
        But those are all completely different things. Every single one of those has its own metaphysical concept and associations. Those aren't even the corpse elements this time around (I'm pretty sure I remember Vance saying this but I don't have time to search the Ask the Devs thread atm. I could be wrong). This is also further evidence for my position. These aren't one aesthetic! These are five completely separate aesthetics that are in balance in the overall splat (check out their meaning on core page 50 for what each aspect represents). This is also true of the Dragon Blooded to my mind as well.

        Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
        Again, Charmsets, not Exaltations.
        How is it meaningful to talk about the exaltation as a separate thing from the charms of the chosen? It's not like you can have a solar exaltation but lunar charms. Can you explain what your distinction is here?

        Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
        Even so, I would never claim that Elementalism was the only element of Dragon-Blooded Charms. That word alone doesn't hint at the hereditary nature of Terrestrial Exaltation, or how Dragon-Blooded are the weakest of the Chosen.

        Likewise, "cybernetics" alone doesn't reveal that the Alchemicals are androids rather than cyborgs, or that they face the possibility of Void Infection.

        But there will never be an Alchemical Charm that isn't a machine. There will never be a Voidtech Charm that isn't a technorganic abomination.
        Except that voidtech charms are alchemical charms! In your own statement you reveal the non-mechanical charms of the Alchemical Exalted. They come with a price, and are specifically set up as a temptation to power in exchange for the potential for evil and insanity but they are available in the vats complex like any other alchemical charm. The Alchemicals would love to say that the apostates aren't alchemicals, but they still are.
        Last edited by armyofwhispers; 10-01-2017, 06:42 PM.

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