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  • Originally posted by Murcushio View Post
    I would like to say, as the season winds down... y'all have been fabulous. This has been some top-notch RWBY commentatin' and arguin' here in this thread. Big shouts out to Kyman, Sunder, Aquillion, Lioness, Bjorn, VHD, and yes, even Sorcerous Overlord. You all are great, and even if I don't have a season roundup post I will see you all for V6.
    Well shit, somebody finally thinks I'm purdy, Ma! I've had a lot of "getting my life together" type shit for the last couple weeks. It was... rough. I wont post here that often anymore.
    Just as an aside, though, thank you. It honestly does mean a lot to me when people appreciate what I wrote even if it's just for rebuttal. It makes the effort feel worthwhile.

    Anyway, the last episode was good. The Raven/Yang talk was a lot better written then I thought it would be. The relic bit works as a mcguffin,

    Emerald showed some character for i think the, *counts fingers* 4th time so far.

    The show still couldn't decide what to do with Hazel, which is a shame. Virtually nothing happened to the lightning/Nora connection and it seems like he was a boss battle that was cut. Kind of a let down.

    The entire Adam subplot didn't build up to anything more than Blake getting over him, which makes him mad (nice characterization, guys! Actually good work there). For how hype he's been it feels like, i don't know, a DLC hook? I really question the storyboard on the whole Adam arc.

    I'm not sure if the Salem vision was supposed to be 100% Emerald illusion or if Salem helped out a little, Ruby weakening seems like it fits the latter although the rage breaking point of Emerald coping with Cinder's death seems like it was probably the former. I won't speculate on how exactly the 3 villains made it out of the great hall and passed all the guards and faunus and sky ships. I'll hand wave Raven finding another way out of the maiden chamber too.

    Leo did nothing, and I know the show wanted to write him out but I'm surprised he didn't just book it out a window once he saw the demon jellyfish.

    Oscar doesn't seem like he's mad at ozpin for brain-jacking him but that could be addressed later.

    The team is back together and we have a direction for the next season.

    Overall Season Comments:
    Very Weak. The direction for this season wanted to do a lot and they didn't stick the landing. The maidens, the White Fang, getting RWBY back together, etc was a lot to get done and it clearly came at the expense of the action- I don't follow behind the scenes or interviews or side materials so I won't speculate on the dev side, but the action was extremely lackluster. Outside of the one main fight -Cinder/Raven-, there were clear moments when the animators switched into high gear for what anime fans might recognize as the "Sakuga Money Shots". Cinder v Raven, as characters, didn't have any emotional build up and very little narrative build up. The clear intention was the "surprise maiden reveal" which, in my opinion, was little more than a bait and switch. S4 suffered from Splitting the Party and S5 had to put them back together. It had some payoff, I won't deny that, but it did not play to the shows strengths and everything was slowed down to try to keep the plates spinning.

    Pop the champaign, boys and girls. We did it.

    - - - -
    Oh, and
    vampire hunter D

    We're great players. We take everything into context and avoid clearly bad decisions. *wink*


    ..."But I've bought a big bat, I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me"

    Message me for Japanese translations.

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    • There was no handwave on Raven's departure. You can hear a portal opening off camera.

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      • Originally posted by vampire hunter D View Post
        There was no handwave on Raven's departure. You can hear a portal opening off camera.
        Totally missed that. I don't know why that didn't occur to me.


        ..."But I've bought a big bat, I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me"

        Message me for Japanese translations.

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        • That's probably also why she seems to have gone to Tai-yang in the after credits scene: He was the only one she had a portal connection to who wasn't right there at the place she as trying to leave.


          I thank the Devs for the great game of Exalted!

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          • I binged season 5 after waiting for every episode to come out. I pity everyone who didn't.

            I liked this season overall, but I get the impression that when they were writing out the script for it, they did it like a feature film. Specifically, they wrote one of those eastern action movies (like "Bodyguards and Assassins" or "Curse of the Golden Flower") where you have hours of character development and maybe a short fight or two leading up to a climax of violence that lasts for most of the final act. And then they chopped up that film into 12-15 minute chunks to put on the internet. I felt like it all comes together pretty well if you watch all of it at once, but not so much if you're going by one episode per week. I thought this about Season 4 as well, but I don't recall 4 ending on cliffhangers quite as often.

            All the character development from season 4 has paid off. The girls have each shown in some way that they're growing as people - Ruby is a bit more confident and serious, Weiss a lot more connected to other people, Yang a bit less rash, and Blake has shed some of her baggage.

            The fight choreography was average-to-good. I wish there had been more prolonged fights, especially in the big melee at the end. I feel like that group battle was managed poorly, especially with how cuts between combatants were handled (How many times did a character stop what they were doing to watch another character's battle, only to get blindsided by an opponent they were ignoring?). OTOH, the fight between Raven and Cinder came out much better than I expected.

            There were a number of things I thought were strange that went unremarked on, though:
            * As previously noted - why does everyone get so offended that Ozpin turned Raven and Crow into birds? That's an oddly specific thing to be upset about, especially since neither of them seem to be bothered by it.
            * Blake killed Fennec. She threw him under a collapsing structure. That's the first time I'm sure any of the RWBY crew has outright murdered somebody, but nobody commented on it afterwards.
            * Qrow's semblance is that he's a jinx - he says that's why he fights alone, and that is presumably why people he fights against have oddly bad luck (e.g. Tyrian randomly falling through a roof during their fight in Season 4). That didn't come up all in this season though, or not in any way I'd recognize. And he's okay with fighting in a group again.
            * Watts didn't show up for the melee at the end. Where'd he go, then?

            ...And one thing I thought was just silly:
            * The White Fang apparently planted bombs all over Mystral academy, then stood around out in the open admiring their handiwork for hours while Adam's allies were fighting inside. Despite staring directly at the tower where the bombs were set, they didn't notice Ilia messing with them - well, okay, she's a chameleon. But then they were then blindsided by two enormous mobs of Faunus that they didn't notice... because their visors give them terrible peripheral vision, or something?

            There was a lot of good stuff this season, but also a fair bit of wasted potential. I'd say this season overall was stronger than 4 but weaker than 3.
            Last edited by semicasual; 02-06-2018, 11:58 AM.


            On the frontier of the Wild South, there's only one woman with the grit to take on its most dangerous outlaws and bring them Back Alive, or Maybe Dead.

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            • Originally posted by Murcushio View Post
              Honestly, that seems like a copout. Why on earth have seasonally themed Maidens who... are not seasonally themed?
              It might be Ozpin's way of honoring the original maidens, who might very well have been named after the four seasons.

              The Spring Maiden would thus be the inheritor of the powers given to the maiden who was named Spring.


              Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

              My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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              • I can't quote Semicasual for some reason, so:

                -I read Raven as implying that she was offended at having been turned into a bird. She didn't give a reason; I read it as part of her larger pattern of finding reasons that her decisions arise from being attacked and manipulated, rather than from fear and selfishness.

                -Fennec went to go take Ghira down and die in the process. Blake pulled Ghira away so he wouldn't die. Fennec's death was a result of his attempted murder, not a conscious decision on any other character's part, unless I missed something major. The wiki suggests I didn't, though.

                -I kind of thought that all of Qrow's old Huntsman/Huntress friends being dead was maybe a representation of his being a jinx? But yeah, it definitely didn't show up in any other fashion.

                I agree that Season 5 was stronger than 4, and not as strong as 3. I found Season 4 pretty frustrating, but 5 was mostly satisfying.

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                • Originally posted by Dex Davican View Post
                  -I kind of thought that all of Qrow's old Huntsman/Huntress friends being dead was maybe a representation of his being a jinx? But yeah, it definitely didn't show up in any other fashion
                  Leonhart betrayed them to Salem. Qrow's Jynx only applies to people physically close to him.


                  ..."But I've bought a big bat, I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me"

                  Message me for Japanese translations.

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                  • Originally posted by semicasual View Post
                    * Blake killed Fennec. She threw him under a collapsing structure. That's the first time I'm sure any of the RWBY crew has outright murdered somebody, but nobody commented on it afterwards.
                    Season 2, the train fight. They straight-up kill a bunch of White Fang goons; shotgunning people with un-awakened Aura right in the face, hurling them from a swiftly moving train, etc.

                    Originally posted by Sunder the Gold
                    It might be Ozpin's way of honoring the original maidens, who might very well have been named after the four seasons.

                    The Spring Maiden would thus be the inheritor of the powers given to the maiden who was named Spring.
                    That's a potential in-universe explanation. Narratively, tho... why have four maidens, each named for one of the seasons, who... have completely identical powersets? What is gained by that as opposed to indivdualizing them based on their season, which lets you do all kinds of cool thematic shit and also have fights where they try and leverage their powersets against various situations and potentially each other?

                    It doesn't seem like a good idea. It's like if the Exalted Maidens all had the same powers and portfolios. That would be a lot duller than what we have now, wouldn't it?


                    "SEX NOVA is the kind of person who, after being chosen as the divine champion of the god of heroes, decided to call himself SEX NOVA."

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                    • It could also be that there other abilities we don't know yet. I mean yes it is entirely possible that the distinction is only based on which of the doors they can open, but it could also be that neither Cinder nor Raven have really learned the full suite.

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                      • Originally posted by Murcushio View Post
                        Season 2, the train fight. They straight-up kill a bunch of White Fang goons; shotgunning people with un-awakened Aura right in the face, hurling them from a swiftly moving train, etc.
                        Yeah, but none of those people are confirmed to be dead. In seasons 1 and 2, plenty of humans and faunus get beaten up and thrown off-screen with the implication being that they're just KO'd.

                        Starting in season 3, Rooster Teeth has gotten less cagey about showing actual injuries (e.g. impalement, mutilation) that indicate actual, permanent damage. In Season 5, people get thrown around like ragdolls all the time, but it seems like most attacks only do cosmetic damage until it becomes narratively important that they actually hurt.


                        On the frontier of the Wild South, there's only one woman with the grit to take on its most dangerous outlaws and bring them Back Alive, or Maybe Dead.

                        Avatar by K.S. Brenowitz

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                        • Shotgunning un-Aura’ed people in the face?

                          What makes you say mooks on Remnant don’t know how to use their Aura?

                          Your average American citizen doesn’t know the first thing about guns, but your average gangster almost certainly does. They learn real fast, because they want to LIVE.

                          Plus, on Remnant, there are high-school equivalent “combat schools”, of which the White Fang grunts might have been dropouts or even graduates.

                          Also remember that their base was in the Grimm-infested wilderness and ruins of a slain city. Setting one foot outside for sunlight and fresh air would risk their lives.

                          There’s an enormous excluded middle of skill between your average citizen and Ruby Rose. In a small army of mooks, no single mook needs to be capable of personally destroying a small army of Beowolves.

                          Kali Belladonna has virtually no skill at fighting yet could use Aura to knock a trained assassin out cold and carry him one-handed through her house with simple brute force. Menagerie probably has a lot of manual laborers who could do the same, because it helps them survive.
                          Last edited by Sunder the Gold; 02-15-2018, 09:51 AM.


                          Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                          My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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                          • Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                            Shotgunning un-Aura’ed people in the face?

                            What makes you say mooks on Remnant don’t know how to use their Aura?
                            You are right that this is something that's very, very hard to tell, especially back before they started actually animating aura. I had been making a completely unwarranted assumption that the mooks were just mooks; an awakened aura always seemed like it would be something special to me, but maybe tons and tons of people have it.

                            You're right to call me out on that.

                            That said, it raises a bunch of questions, doesn't it? Can people with an awakened aura casually tell if someone else has one? Because if not, a lot of the actions undertaken during that fight and others have to be recast in the light of people being willing to kill, because they don't know that the person they're about to shoot in the face at point-blank range will just shrug off the shot as opposed to having their head reduced to a fine pink mist. That doesn't make them bad people, or taking incorrect actions, but it does mean the protagonists have a lot more grit than we've maybe previously assumed.

                            Kali Belladonna has virtually no skill at fighting yet could use Aura to knock a trained assassin out cold and carry him one-handed through her house with simple brute force.
                            Do we actually know this? I don't think we have confirmation either way that Kali has an awakened aura, although Ghira almost certainly does.


                            "SEX NOVA is the kind of person who, after being chosen as the divine champion of the god of heroes, decided to call himself SEX NOVA."

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                            • Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post
                              Leonhart betrayed them to Salem. Qrow's Jynx only applies to people physically close to him.
                              ​I mean, yeah. I was reaching.


                              Originally posted by Murcushio View Post
                              That said, it raises a bunch of questions, doesn't it? Can people with an awakened aura casually tell if someone else has one? Because if not, a lot of the actions undertaken during that fight and others have to be recast in the light of people being willing to kill, because they don't know that the person they're about to shoot in the face at point-blank range will just shrug off the shot as opposed to having their head reduced to a fine pink mist. That doesn't make them bad people, or taking incorrect actions, but it does mean the protagonists have a lot more grit than we've maybe previously assumed.
                              Pretty sure Remnant works more or less on the Ex3 combat engine, with slightly less abstraction in order to accommodate a less gritty fight experience. In Ex3, a successful withering attack looks like gaining the advantage; in Remnant, it may look like taking a bullet (but not an important ​bullet). Mooks get "defeated" by Withering attacks. The protagonists define "defeat" as nonlethal for people and lethal for Grimm, because Grimm can't be KO'd. Important characters can be injured when they still have available Aura, but they're fare more likely to be injured when they've been Crashed. When an attack is going to be Decisive, this is usually clearly communicated to the viewer through a) the attacker's intent, b) the defender's exhaustion, and/or c) the defender's distraction. It seems like the characters more or less understand what kind of situation they're in; if Yang makes a Withering attack that defeats an extra, she gets the cool outcome she wants, rather than accidental headsplosions.
                              Last edited by Dex Davican; 02-15-2018, 02:31 PM.

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                              • Originally posted by Murcushio View Post
                                an awakened aura always seemed like it would be something special to me, but maybe tons and tons of people have it.
                                You think Jaune is normal for his world.

                                “Normal” for Remnant is the Vytal Tournament. Where the commentators talk about Aura and the score boards visibly track the percentage of Aura each competitor has left.

                                “Normal” for Remnant are combat schools that serve as high schools.

                                Jaune didn’t know what Aura was. He had never been to combat school despite a burning desire to go and the talent to succeed. He is not normal for Remnant

                                Oscar is much more normal than Jaune, and no one talks about “awakening” his Aura in the way that Second Edition talker about “enlightening” a mortal’s Essence. Remnant isn’t Creation; it has different setting conceits.

                                We’re told again and again that Aura is something every living thing has. Salem says that what sets one apart as a warrior is the skill to use and amplify their Aura.

                                When Ozpin and the others talk about what Oscar needs to do, they talk about learning how to use the Aura he has in ways that he hasn’t yet learned to invoke unconsciously.

                                Pyrrha’s technique forced that skill upon Jaune, who would have died in that forest. It’s not necessary for Oscar because he had two months of safety to learn and the benefit of absorbing Ozpin’s procedural memories.


                                Can people with an awakened aura casually tell if someone else has one?
                                Blake attempted to take Torchwick hostage with a surprise blade to his throat. His Aura protection was probably unprepared. He stalled for time until he was ready to fire an explosive round under Blake’s feet, just as close to himself. Why not do that sooner? Perhaps he needed time to activate his protection subtly, so that she wouldn’t notice and act?

                                Why didn’t Sienna Khan have her Aura ready? Adam made sure to make it look like he planned to capture and hold her, what with having so many men available to detain and watch her for escape. If they or at least Adam could sense her defense going active, that would have been like drawing a weapon, and Sienna didn’t want to provoke a fight she couldn’t win.


                                Because if not, a lot of the actions undertaken during that fight and others have to be recast in the light of people being willing to kill
                                I am certain you would unconsciously assume that a criminal organization’s enforcers are carrying loaded firearms. Why wouldn’t a criminal organization arm their soldiers and make sure they have a basic understanding of firearms?

                                Why would anyone assume that combatants on Remnant don’t know how to use Aura?


                                Do we actually know this? I don't think we have confirmation either way that Kali has an awakened aura, although Ghira almost certainly does.
                                I could believe that a man Ghira’s size might be able to carry a man through his house one-handed like the morning newspaper without magic, but perhaps you have forgotten that Kali is a small woman and Yuma was bigger than her.


                                Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                                My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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