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Musing and Theorizing about the New Exalts

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  • #91
    Another comment:

    Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
    Hearteaters: Dreaded monsters born from the long ago corruption of divine heroes.

    Umbral Exalted: At war with themselves.

    Dream-Souled: Not fully of Creation or of the Wyld, but standing between them.


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    • #92
      So, I wonder if the Hearteaters were originally another kind of Exalt who all turned into Hearteaters (and so, the original no longer exist), or more like the Abyssals/Infernals, ie a few Exalts were turned into Hearteaters, leaving the rest.

      Now, Hearteaters were originally designed to be a Lunar foil, so I wonder if they're corrupted Lunars.
      After all, Solars already have two kinds of corrupted Exalts, they probably don't need another.
      The question then is... when did this happen? Lunars today are supposed to be quite different from Lunars in the First Age, as they altered their own exaltations, so I wonder if Hearteaters altered their own exaltations in a very different way.
      Of course "the long ago corruption" makes it sound like an outside force corrupted them, so perhaps an outside force offered them a deal to become something different.

      On the other hand, it's the long ago corruption of "divine heroes", rather than Lunars specifically. So maybe it's not Lunars.




      Vance mentioned Dream-Souled are connected with the "mythopoeic nature of the Wyld." So, I wonder if the Dream-Souled are some kind of... myth-exalt? I think it works quite well to put the mythic, story-based facets of the Wyld into these exalts, in a more serious way, rather than with the Raksha, who have the whole fairy-vampire thing going on already (which is probably enough of a foundation).

      I wonder how literal "Dream-Souled" is. I mean, is their soul actually something created by the Wyld?


      The final ones, the Umbral Exalted, could be a lot of things. At war with themselves... that picture gave me the idea of the hero with cursed power, whose own power attempts to seize control of him/her, who can only let it out when most necessary. I'm not sure if that's it though.
      It could also be connected to the Hun/Po. I think probably the war is more between human and exaltation though.
      And why Umbral? In the picture, there's a dark spirit above him. What's the darkness theme here doing?


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      • #93
        As for the Hearteaters, as they are meant to be those "Bitten Soul Deep", Holden once said that their greatest enemy are the Solar Exalts, for driving them away from the "glory of the First Age" or something like that. That makes me feel like the right option is for them being a fully corrupted host of Exalts, who were "bitten" by something which twisted or corrupted their Exaltation. That is, unless we are reading it all wrong, and it is not a type of a corrupted exalts as much as the corruption was the one which granted the fallen divine heroes Exaltation (that is, the divine heroes were fallen from grace, making them fit to being Exalted by a terrible, godlike power).

        Considering the "mythic" reference to the Dream soul, I wonder if perhaps they would be something like the Begotten from Beast: the Primordial or something like that.

        As for Umbral, I must say that the Shadow metaphor really makes me think about Wraith (with the Shadow mechanics), some Jungian concepts, and the story "Shadow" by Hans Christian Andersen.


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        • #94
          Originally posted by LostLight View Post
          As for the Hearteaters, as they are meant to be those "Bitten Soul Deep", Holden once said that their greatest enemy are the Solar Exalts, for driving them away from the "glory of the First Age" or something like that. That makes me feel like the right option is for them being a fully corrupted host of Exalts, who were "bitten" by something which twisted or corrupted their Exaltation. That is, unless we are reading it all wrong, and it is not a type of a corrupted exalts as much as the corruption was the one which granted the fallen divine heroes Exaltation (that is, the divine heroes were fallen from grace, making them fit to being Exalted by a terrible, godlike power).
          Hmmm... yeah, I could see those. But I think corrupted Exalts is more likely than it just being the exaltation.
          They might not necessarily be a full host though (although I still think that's a possibility).
          They could be Solars/Lunars/Sidereals/DBs or whoever, who were exposed to something that corrupted their exaltations ("biting" their souls), and the Solars responded to this by turning upon them. Which has led them to hate Solars for driving them out.

          Considering the "mythic" reference to the Dream soul, I wonder if perhaps they would be something like the Begotten from Beast: the Primordial or something like that.
          I'm not very familiar with Beast, what are the Begotten?

          As for Umbral, I must say that the Shadow metaphor really makes me think about Wraith (with the Shadow mechanics), some Jungian concepts, and the story "Shadow" by Hans Christian Andersen.
          Oh, definitely. I just wonder what the story behind how they work will be.


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          • #95
            The begotten is another name for Beasts themselves.

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            • #96
              My understanding of the point of the "Foil Exalted" was that they would point up part of the play experience of one or another type of existing Exalted, helping to define things by their differences.

              I had been assuming that one of the Lunar Foils would be a shapeshifter type who could maybe do some of the "body horror" type shapeshifting, to help differentiate types of shapeshfting, make Lunars not the only shapeshifters in the game anymore, and to give an outlet for people who really liked playing a Wyld Warped Lunar in 2e. I figured the other would help define the Lunar relationship with the Wyld and open up the Wyld play area a bit more, that sort of thing.

              Of course, as the Dream-Souled, who are of Creation and the Wyld, were supposed to be Sid Foils, my theory doesn't really hold up, but we can examine the info in light of it and see what we get.

              Lunars, it has been said before, can and have become monsters, but it's not a bad thing for them. They're not the ones who wake up in a pile of dead bodies wondering how that happened. No, they know exactly how those bodies got there. In contrast, the Umbral Exalted sound like they're the kind of people for whom being a monster is a big effing problem and who might well wake up in a pile of bodies without knowing what happened. And the Hearteaters sound like they're just straight up monsters all the time. So, it seems like this triptych of Exalts is about examining "What it means to be a Monster."

              With Sidereals.... Hmmm.... Not sure. Maybe Liminal figures, who have no real home anywhere? But one could argue that all Exalted are like that.


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              • #97
                As per the dev thread, the Hearteaters aren't corrupted versions of any of the other Exalted, implying what we've got here is the corruption of an Exalted Host.

                Re the Dream-Souled's nature as foils, part of it may be that they stand between Creation and the primordial chaos, as Sidereals stand between Creation and the order of Fate. Also maybe something about the myth-creating nature of the Wyld, in relation to how the Sids can't be the same kind of myth-figures the other Exalted are, forced to hide in myth, and in relation to the established narratives of Fate.


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                • #98
                  Originally posted by marin View Post
                  As per the dev thread, the Hearteaters aren't corrupted versions of any of the other Exalted, implying what we've got here is the corruption of an Exalted Host.
                  He said they're not corruptions of any of the other types of Exalted. They could still be corruptions of their former selves - i.e. they existed in a different form once, that their current form is a corruption from.

                  Also, this is pure nitpicking, but capital-H "Exalted Host" refers to the Exalted collectively as an army, ala "Heavenly Host" referring to the army of angels. It doesn't refer to a mortal who is possessed by an Exaltation - that's not what Exaltation is (with the possible exception of the Umbral Exalted, going by the art that fits the description we've gotten).

                  If I misunderstood how you were intending to use the term marin, I apologize.


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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

                    He said they're not corruptions of any of the other types of Exalted. They could still be corruptions of their former selves - i.e. they existed in a different form once, that their current form is a corruption from.
                    gotten).
                    .

                    Musing: Perhaps they start out by eating their own Hearts first, thus corrupting themselves and setting down on a path of heart-eating addiction - whether literally or metaphorically makes, I suppose, little difference.

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                    • Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

                      He said they're not corruptions of any of the other types of Exalted. They could still be corruptions of their former selves - i.e. they existed in a different form once, that their current form is a corruption from.
                      ...ah. Apparently it didn't come across that I was trying to say much the same thing.

                      Also, this is pure nitpicking, but capital-H "Exalted Host" refers to the Exalted collectively as an army, ala "Heavenly Host" referring to the army of angels. It doesn't refer to a mortal who is possessed by an Exaltation - that's not what Exaltation is (with the possible exception of the Umbral Exalted, going by the art that fits the description we've gotten).

                      If I misunderstood how you were intending to use the term marin, I apologize.
                      Trying to use it in the 'Heavenly Host' sense, to describe a group of Exalted.


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                      • Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                        As for the Hearteaters, as they are meant to be those "Bitten Soul Deep", Holden once said that their greatest enemy are the Solar Exalts, for driving them away from the "glory of the First Age" or something like that. That makes me feel like the right option is for them being a fully corrupted host of Exalts, who were "bitten" by something which twisted or corrupted their Exaltation. That is, unless we are reading it all wrong, and it is not a type of a corrupted exalts as much as the corruption was the one which granted the fallen divine heroes Exaltation (that is, the divine heroes were fallen from grace, making them fit to being Exalted by a terrible, godlike power).

                        Considering the "mythic" reference to the Dream soul, I wonder if perhaps they would be something like the Begotten from Beast: the Primordial or something like that.

                        As for Umbral, I must say that the Shadow metaphor really makes me think about Wraith (with the Shadow mechanics), some Jungian concepts, and the story "Shadow" by Hans Christian Andersen.
                        But Vance said those epithets weren't totally accurate anymore (bitten soul deep, derived from sleep).

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                        • Originally posted by reseru View Post
                          But Vance said those epithets weren't totally accurate anymore (bitten soul deep, derived from sleep).
                          never meant to use them literally. Actually, I've never thought they were. "derived from sleep" simply means they are related to dreams, while "bitten soul deep" just a sign for inner corruption. Like I really don't think that something bites the Hearteaters to grant them Exaltation- nothing more than a metaphor, that's all.


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                          • Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

                            He said they're not corruptions of any of the other types of Exalted. They could still be corruptions of their former selves - i.e. they existed in a different form once, that their current form is a corruption from.
                            I don't really see the difference between what you're saying and what Marin said?


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                            • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                              I don't really see the difference between what you're saying and what Marin said?
                              Apparently there isn't, I misunderstood Marin.


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                              • Okay, so it seems to me that the Hearteaters seem to have been a kind of Exalt who were somehow corrupted in their entirety, and so the Solars drove them out.
                                But was this during the High First Age? Shortly after the Primordial War? Or even before the end of the Primordial War?


                                I'm interested that the Dream-Souled, the ones with some kind of connection to the Wyld, were conceived as foils for the Sidereals, rather than the Lunars. So I'd guess they're not allied with the Raksha, not trying to invade Creation. But perhaps being connected to the Wyld, they damage causality with their mythic powers (I don't mean that's what they're about; but maybe their powers relate to the mythic nature of the Wyld, and this is in opposition to the mere reality fought for by the Sidereals).


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