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  • #31
    speaking of sorcery..am i the only one who finds it strange that the exalted apparently only acquired it about 9 years after the first age? not only does it seem necessary to me ,in order to wage the primordial war but also to imprison the yozis. besides time of glory had gone for millions of years,it's hard to imagine that the incarna had not found some way to take the secret form a third circle demon or something

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    • #32
      Originally posted by mark View Post
      speaking of sorcery..am i the only one who finds it strange that the exalted apparently only acquired it about 9 years after the first age? not only does it seem necessary to me ,in order to wage the primordial war but also to imprison the yozis. besides time of glory had gone for millions of years,it's hard to imagine that the incarna had not found some way to take the secret form a third circle demon or something

      Sorcery was taken or given. Before the primodial war, in 2e, why would the primodials give anyone sorcery? At all? The Incarna and gods don't need it for their jobs. Hell, Sol doesn't want it now. Theirs a lack of motive, esp in 2e where UCS at full capacity had stuff like "infinite damage spear". So they don't get it. AS for the needs of the primodial war, I think it is important to note that it was apparently not neccessary for the war effort. The archetype of the sorcerer supreme is thus something only availble after the age of dreams (Which...is an intreasting angle/tangent to me).
      If it was taken (And my memory eludes me on which it is in 2e), then the taking there of would have constituted the Primodial War.


      I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by mark View Post
        speaking of sorcery..am i the only one who finds it strange that the exalted apparently only acquired it about 9 years after the first age?
        Why would it be strange?

        Originally posted by mark View Post
        not only does it seem necessary to me ,in order to wage the primordial war…
        Did Zeus use sorcery during the Titanomachy? (No.)

        Did Odin sacrifice his eye to initiate into the deeper mysteries of the universe before he fought Ymir? (No, that was after.)

        Originally posted by mark View Post
        …but also to imprison the yozis.
        I think a far more necessary component to the imprisonment of the Yozis was the cooperation of the Yozis. Also don't forget that the gods helped out in this part, and there was an entire caste of Solars who could lay supernaturally-binding oaths on people.

        Originally posted by mark View Post
        besides time of glory had gone for millions of years,it's hard to imagine that the incarna had not found some way to take the secret form a third circle demon or something
        It staggers the imagination that Earth has been around for billions of years.

        That doesn't stop it being true.
        Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 11-07-2017, 03:07 AM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Epee102 View Post
          If it was taken (And my memory eludes me on which it is in 2e), then the taking there of would have constituted the Primodial War.
          In 2nd necromancy was taken, sorcerery was given.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
            Why would it be strange?

            Did Zeus use sorcery during the Titanomachy? (No.)

            Did Odin sacrifice his eye to initiate into the deeper mysteries of the universe before he fought Ymir? (No, that was after.)

            I think a far more necessary component to the imprisonment of the Yozis was the cooperation of the Yozis. Also don't forget that the gods helped out in this part, and there was an entire caste of Solars who could lay supernaturally-binding oaths on people.

            It staggers the imagination that Earth has been around for billions of years.

            That doesn't stop it being true.

            well the exalted (and the primordials) use chronomancy a lot, which i assume was a list of spells before time travel was metaphysically outlawed.

            yeah the gods helped..i just can't see how they would have done so without sorcery. plus the eclipse caste power is not strong enough for what was done to the yozis

            plus to be honest sorcery seems necessary to me just because of its general utility

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            • #36
              Originally posted by mark View Post
              well the exalted (and the primordials) use chronomancy a lot, which i assume was a list of spells before time travel was metaphysically outlawed.
              Sorry, whats this about chronomancy and a ban on time travel? In what book was it mentioned?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Sakii View Post
                Sorry, whats this about chronomancy and a ban on time travel? In what book was it mentioned?
                I think he's referring to how time-travel isn't a thing in the setting. But "metaphysically outlawed" is a weird way of putting it, and there's no reason to assume that there was ever a point where time-travel was street-legal.

                Originally posted by mark View Post
                yeah the gods helped.
                The gods helped, but that's not what I was getting at. The Yozis helped. Their surrender was instrumental to their imprisonment.

                Originally posted by mark View Post
                i just can't see how they would have done so without sorcery.
                Just because you can't see something as having happened any other way than the way you're imagining, doesn't mean it happened the way you're imagining, though. Humanity didn't discover sorcery until after the war; that's canon.

                Originally posted by mark View Post
                plus the eclipse caste power is not strong enough for what was done to the yozis
                It sure helped, though.

                Originally posted by mark View Post
                plus to be honest sorcery seems necessary to me just because of its general utility
                ​Useful or not, people did manage to do stuff before the invention of the Internet sorcery.
                Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 11-08-2017, 06:56 PM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Sakii View Post

                  Sorry, whats this about chronomancy and a ban on time travel? In what book was it mentioned?
                  i can't remember the exact book of the ban . . but it's canon that both sides abused the shit out of chronomancy for instance the neverborn known as the abhorrence of life was killed between the second week and 157 year of the war due to time travel

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by mark View Post

                    yeah the gods helped..i just can't see how they would have done so without sorcery. plus the eclipse caste power is not strong enough for what was done to the yozis

                    Your own incredulity isn't the same as it being impossible. The Primordial War was enormous, with every single Exalt having to try as hard as possible to succeed every minute of it. The kind of charms that their essence would produce could easily reach the level required to cage the Yozi.

                    Don't forget that some of them had already been slain and were almost certainly happy to take a leaky cage over destruction. If I was told I either had to help build a prison I couldn't escape from rather than die (or spend eternity in tortured agony wishing for death) I'd be more than willing to help with blueprints.

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                    • #40
                      They probably used really powerful Occult charms that nobody bothers with now that sorcery is a thing.

                      Like, take Spirit Caging Mandala and just... supersize it.

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                      • #41
                        going back to the gods.. is there any book explaining their inability to use adamant circle sorcery? the only thing i found is gloriesUCS where it mentions it as a given.
                        also are gods supposed to have learned sorcery after brigid or was it simply impossible to transmit it?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by mark View Post
                          going back to the gods.. is there any book explaining their inability to use adamant circle sorcery?
                          Why does "the gods lack the capacity to use the highest heights of sorcery, only attained by the most powerful Solar sorcerers, after whom the entire circle was named" need explanation? It's like asking why the ancient Mesoamericans didn't invent the hydrogen bomb.

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                          • #43
                            I could BS a reason up right now, if you like.

                            Sorcery, particularly in 3E, is an external thing. You collect the essence of the world together and mould it into the shape you want. As a result it actually comes most easily to the Exalted, mortals empowered by outside forces.

                            Spirits, by contrast, are inherently magical beings. They use their internal power as naturally as breathing, and so their great feats and miracles come about as expressions of that personal power, expressed via charms. The greatest among them may equal the feats of sorcery, but they do so by very different methods.

                            And furthermore, they are bound to their themes far more tightly than the exalted, which translates to a reduced aptitude for things which allow one to transcend those themes, such as sorcery.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by mark View Post


                              well the exalted (and the primordials) use chronomancy a lot, which i assume was a list of spells before time travel was metaphysically outlawed.
                              That's not how the game's ban on time travel works; it's something that is being presented as cosmologically impossible.

                              ​I am quite confident that the term "chronomancy" has never come up in any book published for the game ever. There are references to weapons that warped time, but that probably never extended to the point of being able to freely go back and forth between points of time, just things that messed up how it flowed relative to other areas.

                              Originally posted by mark
                              yeah the gods helped..i just can't see how they would have done so without sorcery.
                              ​I'm of two minds regarding the imprisonment of the Yozis. One is to keep it extremely simple, and basically attribute the entire process to the Yozis having surrendered themselves into it. The other is to treat it much like the creation of the world or the Exalted themselves, something huge and mythic and so deeply rooted in its specific context that it kind of defies breaking down into component steps or necessary tools. Either way, saying that sorcery would be absolutely, 100% necessary for it wouldn't be the right approach.


                              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                              Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                              https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                              • #45
                                Also, there were two primordials helping the gods. They may have had a hand in there.

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