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why are the yozis prisons intentionally flawed?

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  • #46
    Vance confirmed my suspicion on some thematic reassignment between the Yozis in 3E. The whole "ultimate nemesis for the sake of it" role is going to belong to Szoreny (note, not necessarily "EVIL!!!" for its own sake, but perfect opposition, as befits a creature thematically tied to reflection). The "become a doppelganger but with reversed intimacies" Shintai will draw on Szoreny this time, not the Ebon Dragon.

    "Shadows" in contrast with "Reflection" are associated with remnants of things lost, deeply hidden shames, and looming future dooms.


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    • #47
      To quote Games of Divinity on the Ebon Dragon a bit, and hopefully not violating forum policy in the process:

      Originally posted by Games of Divinity, p. 88
      The Ebon Dragon is the shadow of every creature that has ever lived.

      At the edge of the dragon, the world dims, as insect shadows blur together and form an undifferentiated gray pall. As one moves into the dragon’s flesh, black shadows appear. These shadows take on the shapes of humans, demons, spirits and things, and none have an obvious source. As one moves still further inward, the shadows fade to undifferentiated darkness. That darkness has a face.

      If the Ebon Dragon crawls along the ground, he casts his shadows on the earth. When he flies atop the clouds, he dims them to black. When he flies through empty air, his shadows fall on the sky itself and darken all the world beneath.

      The Demon City has no night, but on occasion, the Ebon Dragon passes under the sun. Then, the green light fades away. The stomach bottle bugs chirp. Demons, disquieted and unhappy, clear the streets. The things that hunt only in darkness stir beneath the stone and rise into the city.

      The Ebon Dragon is not a creature of the living world. Even before his imprisonment, he partook in the essence of the other side, of the things that follow life. He sipped from hidden springs beneath the world where one should not drink and loved only those doomed to die and, of them, only those deaths that would change the world. He has claimed a new fiancée, taken her captive within the shadows. He speaks not of the matter. But in the song of Erembour, who is among his souls, there is distress; for it may be that this consort will live.

      The Ebon Dragon’s nature is to test his prison. He does not trust the work of the gods to contain him, for he is that which they are not. Thus, the Yozis have given him the task of breaking their durance, and his plans work always to free him from his cell. This effort is doomed, but it may be that the Ebon Dragon may damn Creation along the way.
      So yeah, based on this text, I see persoanlly Lore (secrets, seeing what role folks play in bigger pictures to see dooms), Occult (for ghosts, the dead, necromancy, all that fun stuff), Stealth (darkness, all the darkness), Larceny (trying to escape and such), and maybe even Athletics since he flies and that might ahve some cool effecs there to work with.

      But yeah, there's a lot of thematics to each Yozi tow ork with. And I think that overly focusing on what's something they do to one or two Abilities and hwo they might dip into a lot of them is better the way to go. As well as remember that they can have a lot more nuanced descriptions than being boiled down to a particular form of mania made to encompass a whole character.
      Last edited by Blaque; 11-11-2017, 03:08 PM.


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      • #48
        speaking of flaws..doesn't the prison break if malfeas and/or cecelyne dies? after all he is the prison and she is the bars. you'd think the rest of the yozis could gang up on them?

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        • #49
          Can it even be done ?

          The primordial war is a miracle of Man. primordials were its victims. Primordial "Death" is/was a thing of that war.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by mark View Post
            speaking of flaws..doesn't the prison break if malfeas and/or cecelyne dies?
            Can you point me to the book where this statement appear?


            The no.1 fan of Demetheus. I also draw Exalted things and is looking for commission works ~

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            • #51
              That would be an obvious weak point, so no, I don't think it would.

              Not sure what would happen...

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              • #52
                It really, really really REALLY helps to remember that the story Before does not follow any coherent rule to determine how it works, for among other things the war is from a time before.

                So forget causation. The war happened. Some primordials died and some were imprisoned forever. That's your starting point. Just like entropy you'll only ever find evidence that corroborates its inevitability. Any hypothesis you raise about the prison breaking simply won't find evidence.

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                • #53
                  You have narrative freedom to make it messy. Demons escape, essence leaks, people fall in by accident. You can even play some apocalypse plot with things going boom in there. But They'll still be there.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
                    Vance confirmed my suspicion on some thematic reassignment between the Yozis in 3E. The whole "ultimate nemesis for the sake of it" role is going to belong to Szoreny (note, not necessarily "EVIL!!!" for its own sake, but perfect opposition, as befits a creature thematically tied to reflection). The "become a doppelganger but with reversed intimacies" Shintai will draw on Szoreny this time, not the Ebon Dragon.

                    "Shadows" in contrast with "Reflection" are associated with remnants of things lost, deeply hidden shames, and looming future dooms.
                    To clarify: The effect of Black Mirror Shintai is going over to Szoreny, but he is not the Ultimate Nemesis. For hints on his themes going forward, I'd recommend his description in the Ink Monkeys essay"Of the Yozis Less Spoken Of."


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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by mark View Post
                      speaking of flaws..doesn't the prison break if malfeas and/or cecelyne dies? after all he is the prison and she is the bars. you'd think the rest of the yozis could gang up on them?
                      What makes you think they even can? So far, pretty much the only thing to demonstrate capability of killing a Primordial is the Exalted themselves.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by mark View Post
                        speaking of flaws..doesn't the prison break if malfeas and/or cecelyne dies? after all he is the prison and she is the bars. you'd think the rest of the yozis could gang up on them?
                        -sidestepping the can of Primodial-on-Primodial violence-
                        If one of the Yozi's killed Malfeas, I'd say they got something like freedom.
                        I think it's almost certainly impossible for a Yozi to kill Malfeas. And not because I subscribe to "a yozi can't kill a yozi". More because Malfeas is...too much.
                        I think Malfeas's role as king and supreme authority means certain Yozi's pyschologically couldn't kill him (SWLIHN, Ceclyne). I think Malfeas being possible the strongest or most endurant Yozi (or 2nd at each, behind Isodorios and Qaf as well) means the abillity to kill him is severely hampered. I think Malfeas being omnipresent makes a fight between him and another Yozi terrifying to behold.
                        And I don't think Malfeas would let someone kill him.

                        So...yes. If Malfeas was killed by a compact of Isodros, Qaf, and Szorney perhaps the Yozi would be free.
                        I don't think they could pull it off.


                        I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.

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                        • #57
                          A Yozi can't kill another Yozi because none of them has Ghost-Eating Technique.


                          The no.1 fan of Demetheus. I also draw Exalted things and is looking for commission works ~

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Jen View Post
                            A Yozi can't kill another Yozi because none of them has Ghost-Eating Technique.

                            I'd be surprised if no Yozi had the capacity to permanetly kill gods or a similair effect. Not super surprised, it'd be an intreasting thematic thing, but still surprised.


                            I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
                              To clarify: The effect of Black Mirror Shintai is going over to Szoreny, but he is not the Ultimate Nemesis. For hints on his themes going forward, I'd recommend his description in the Ink Monkeys essay"Of the Yozis Less Spoken Of."
                              Ah, sorry to have misrepresented the situation - my mistake!


                              Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                              • #60
                                Part of the original description of Cecylene was that even if the Yozis got past the bones of Malfeas, they'd only find her stretching away into infinity for them.

                                ​For the sake of not making the answer to their imprisonment too easy, I would propose something like the idea that having been surrounded by Cecylene means that they've already been banded in a space that stretches infinitely, and the only thing that killing Cecylene would accomplish is making everything between the border of Malfeas and the edge of infinity an empty void.

                                Possibly, it would make going too or from Malfeas a lot more difficult (nigh impossible, maybe), or at least significantly less pleasant.

                                ​The description in Games of Divinity said that if all lesser life forms were to disappear from Malfeas, the Yozis and unquestionable would still have their own occupations that would be unaffected, and that they could become so engrossed in that they hardly even notice everything below them being gone, so I wouldn't even say a prison sans Malfeas and Cecylene would be as bad as drifting in an infinite void for all eternity without the company of any demons that need solid ground beneath them being incredibly boring.

                                But there's no freedom for them there.


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