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why are the yozis prisons intentionally flawed?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
    To clarify: The effect of Black Mirror Shintai is going over to Szoreny, but he is not the Ultimate Nemesis. For hints on his themes going forward, I'd recommend his description in the Ink Monkeys essay"Of the Yozis Less Spoken Of."

    Is this true of all the Yozi?


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    • #62
      Originally posted by mark View Post
      speaking of flaws..doesn't the prison break if malfeas and/or cecelyne dies? after all he is the prison and she is the bars. you'd think the rest of the yozis could gang up on them?
      Possible answers:

      1) Part of the surrender oaths demand that no Yozi can kill Malfeas or Cecelyne.

      2) Performing fetch death on Malfeas or Cecelyne will only convert them into a more perfect prison because Solar Magic.

      3) Actually killing either of them would take them and all the other Yozis into the Crypts of the Neverborn, which would be even harder to escape from and would be rather like a human escaping a prison only to end up buried alive.


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      • #63
        Originally posted by Epee102 View Post

        Is this true of all the Yozi?
        Given that Eric Minton, one of our Developers, wrote that essay, I'd say it's likely to be worth reading.


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        • #64
          Originally posted by Epee102 View Post
          Is this true of all the Yozi?
          With the exception of Cytherea (of whom nothing more is known), all the Yozis described in that essay will likely be using those descriptions as at least the starting point in their development.


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          • #65
            Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post

            3) Actually killing either of them would take them and all the other Yozis into the Crypts of the Neverborn, which would be even harder to escape from and would be rather like a human escaping a prison only to end up buried alive.
            Yeah, I don't imagine that finding oneself locked away in the cathedral-tomb world body of He Who Speaks in All Caps would be a significant improvement upon the current situation.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
              Part of the original description of Cecylene was that even if the Yozis got past the bones of Malfeas, they'd only find her stretching away into infinity for them.

              ​For the sake of not making the answer to their imprisonment too easy, I would propose something like the idea that having been surrounded by Cecylene means that they've already been banded in a space that stretches infinitely, and the only thing that killing Cecylene would accomplish is making everything between the border of Malfeas and the edge of infinity an empty void.

              Possibly, it would make going too or from Malfeas a lot more difficult (nigh impossible, maybe), or at least significantly less pleasant.

              ​The description in Games of Divinity said that if all lesser life forms were to disappear from Malfeas, the Yozis and unquestionable would still have their own occupations that would be unaffected, and that they could become so engrossed in that they hardly even notice everything below them being gone, so I wouldn't even say a prison sans Malfeas and Cecylene would be as bad as drifting in an infinite void for all eternity without the company of any demons that need solid ground beneath them being incredibly boring.

              But there's no freedom for them there.

              "infinite empty void" kinda describes elsewhere.. so perhaps killing cecelyne and/or malfeas simply leaves them free to mess around stuff Elsewhere?(i.e kick the crap out of autochthom

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              • #67
                I don't remember where I saw it, but I'm sure I remember something that bascially said if you were to kill Malfeas then the Yozi would simply collapse into a dense mass where the center of him used to be. Essentially, it wouldn't free them, it would take away the only space they have to actually move. Similarly, I'd say that killing Cecelyne wouldn't do anything but create a yawning abyss outside of Malfeas that constantly tried to suck the Yozi into it. Killing both would be... ill advised.


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                • #68
                  Originally posted by mark View Post


                  "infinite empty void" kinda describes elsewhere.. so perhaps killing cecelyne and/or malfeas simply leaves them free to mess around stuff Elsewhere?(i.e kick the crap out of autochthom
                  What kind of logic is this???


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                  • #69
                    Even if you end up in Elsewhere, you can't get to Autochthonia. That's Elsewhere.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                      Even if you end up in Elsewhere, you can't get to Autochthonia. That's Elsewhere.
                      That’s been my interpretation since late First Edition as well. Non-canonical comics aside, Elsewhere’s not an empty space with things hanging in it. It’s the state of not having a reachable location relative to things outside of itself. This is getting more 2nd ed metaphysical technicality heavy than 3rd ed is ever likely to go, but at my table First Age Twilights theorized it is in fact Nirupadhika.

                      The Poles of Lightning and Steam are “Elsewhere” from the rest of Autochthonia in the same way that’s Yu Shan is Elsewhere from Creation (part of the same system of causality [Fate/Design], connected to the rest of the world by portals, but lacking specific spatial location). The cylindrical Poles are not sitting outside Autochthon in a big void, with Yu Shan floating in its own bubble a few miles up and to the left with a bunch of Daiklaves, armor, and power bows floating in-between.

                      I DO have a realm at my table that’s primarily and empty space-like void without up or down, where large bodies quietly drift - but that’s my presentation of Zen Mu...
                      Last edited by glamourweaver; 11-14-2017, 08:22 PM.


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                      • #71
                        Though didn't Ebon Dragon find a way to Autochton only to get beaten to a pulp by Autochton's rogue creation, whatever was the name?

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                        • #72
                          He managed to get to the same pocket-dimension the Viator of Nullspace was sealed in. There was a fight.

                          So essentially he managed to get from one prison to another.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                            He managed to get to the same pocket-dimension the Viator of Nullspace was sealed in. There was a fight.

                            So essentially he managed to get from one prison to another.
                            Thank you, I am terrible with names. Any chance to give me a reference book for that info so I can look it up again?

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                            • #74
                              Compass of Celestial Directions: Autochthonia, page 128.

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