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A Mirror Darkly - Simple Abyssal conversion rules

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  • A Mirror Darkly - Simple Abyssal conversion rules

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    It's not uncommon for both STs and players looking for Abyssal rules to just use Solar rules and change the flavour, and while that works well enough it does leave a few incongruous notes. So I made this set of rules to apply as a modification to the Solar rules and charmset, replacing some of the more overtly Solar mechanics with more Abyssal effects for those wishing to play with or use deathknights. It includes anima powers, resonance rules and a number of revised mirror charms.

    As a note, in many places the flavour of a charm was clearly very Solar but its mechanics worked fine for Abyssals, so I left it unchanged. Mirror charms were only added in where the mechanics had to be adjusted to accomodate more Abyssal thematics.

    Any suggestions or critique are welcome.


    Infernals - To Rule in Hell
    Simple Solar > Abyssal conversion rules
    3e Dragon Kings
    My martial arts

  • #2
    I have...concerns about resonance.
    I'm not a huge fan of it being a major sin to spend a month not killing things. That seems...excessive? I guess arranged human sacrifice could work, but it puts a considerable strain on a mixed party. Also are abyssals/Ghosts "alive" for purposes of ending a life to save antoher? The monthly requirement equates the two, but I'm uncertain.


    I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Epee102 View Post
      I have...concerns about resonance.
      I'm not a huge fan of it being a major sin to spend a month not killing things. That seems...excessive? I guess arranged human sacrifice could work, but it puts a considerable strain on a mixed party.
      I don't envision it being a huge issue, violence is a pretty big thing in Creation. It would be rough if you had a purely pacifist group where everyone refused to kill even their enemies, but that's not all that common and it's the situation where resonance is supposed to be a heavy burden on the Abyssal. And even then, an average of one resonance per month isn't very much compared to how much limit a Solar might be gaining in that time. If you're doing a game with heavy downtime then I could see it causing problems, though. In that case I'd suggest changing the interval.

      Originally posted by Epee102 View Post
      Also are abyssals/Ghosts "alive" for purposes of ending a life to save antoher? The monthly requirement equates the two, but I'm uncertain.
      Hadn't thought about this, but I'd suspect they aren't. Killing ghosts to protect the living isn't the kind of thing resonance should be encouraging.


      Infernals - To Rule in Hell
      Simple Solar > Abyssal conversion rules
      3e Dragon Kings
      My martial arts

      Comment


      • #4
        I like the idea that Abyssals are allowed to shunt death around without consequence. You're allowed to choose who dies, as long as someone does.

        I suppose if you were to try to kill someone to save another and they escape that would still get you dinged, right? Would the attempted murder reduce the severity?

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        • #5
          Woah! I just started reading and I ran into an issue right at the start!

          Dusk anima powers: 1. If you're dissolving a battle group you're rarely using a decisive attack and would thus not reset to base. Did you mean for this to simply grant extra init for dissolution?
          2. The perma-death thing for spirits is kinda high level for an anima power. Solars get it in a three-charm tree. I'm assuming that other Abyssals can pick up similar charms. I'd recommend a different anima power for the dusks. It's not a great idea to have anima power replicating charms. It either becomes obsolete or it's overpowered.

          Midnight: 1. Should prob limit the terrified obedience thing to be linked with essence somehow. Not cool to be able to call nephracks to heel at char gen, Or the twin monarchs (if they're still even a thing)
          2. Should probably introduce a roll to interpret the neverborn ravings. It's pretty unclear how it works atm.

          Moonshadow: I like the staircase through worlds idea. That's pretty cool, though it might be a little easy to use as an escape route unless it lasts longer than one turn. I gather you did away with the Abyssal's being able to take spirit charms? Makes sense, that seems more like a Solar thing to me.

          Resonance:
          Not sure if you're aware, but this edition it's just gonna be called limit and it'll actually be a function of the great curse but twisted to abyssal themes. Not sure precisely how it's gonna look but can pretty much guarantee it's not going to look anything like this. You could stick with this or try to convert limit to abyssal themes at your leisure, but I wanted to point out that this isn't going to be how it works officially anymore.

          Not gonna delve too deep into the charms in a single post, but overall it looks pretty good so far!



          Check out my homebrew exalt: The Fabulists - Chosen of the Raksha here

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          • #6
            I'm gonna critique the survival charm tree since that's the one Solar tree that I know the best.

            Blood Feasting Technique: This raises some questions for me. It's your choice to include a straight up cannibalism charm, but how do Abyssals without this charm survive in the underworld? If they have hunger, do they eat regular food? Are they forced to eat underworld food and this charm allows them to survive in creation? If they Why do they need to eat at all? And above all, do we really need a cannibalism-specific charm?

            Wretched Nightmare Beast: Being able to go immaterial is a big deal in Exalted. 1WP is way under-costed for that power. Note that this costs 60m, 1wp for a lesser elemental dragon. This should never be something accessible to garden variety familiars. Materialize is cheaper at 35m, 1wp as well.

            Infallible Barghest Mein: Is this having a sample of blood required to track? It's ambiguous if that's the intention.


            Check out my homebrew exalt: The Fabulists - Chosen of the Raksha here

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Elfive View Post
              I like the idea that Abyssals are allowed to shunt death around without consequence. You're allowed to choose who dies, as long as someone does.

              I suppose if you were to try to kill someone to save another and they escape that would still get you dinged, right? Would the attempted murder reduce the severity?
              Uhh, gosh. I can see strong arguments for either answer here and have no idea which way to rule. Probably reducing the severity by one sounds good.

              Originally posted by armyofwhispers View Post
              Dusk anima powers: 1. If you're dissolving a battle group you're rarely using a decisive attack and would thus not reset to base. Did you mean for this to simply grant extra init for dissolution?
              2. The perma-death thing for spirits is kinda high level for an anima power. Solars get it in a three-charm tree. I'm assuming that other Abyssals can pick up similar charms. I'd recommend a different anima power for the dusks. It's not a great idea to have anima power replicating charms. It either becomes obsolete or it's overpowered.
              Decisive attacks are absolute murder on battle groups, I'd highly recommend doing it if you've been avoiding that in your games. The extra levels of damage from the battle group rule are nice, but more importantly you get to bypass their often huge soak. Does leave you quite vulnerable to getting crashed afterwards if you don't finish them off, but it's very much worth the risk if you time it well.

              The permadeath power was a bit iffy because of Ghost-Eating Technique. I tried to differentiate them enough that they wouldn't overlap significantly but I'm not sure if I succeeded. GET is 3m and refunds motes with every hit, so it's cheap to the point of free while the anima power is substantially expensive, and it also adds aggravated which helps to kill the spirit in the first place. On the other hand, the anima power lets you permakill immortal beings that aren't spirits, which GET doesn't work on, and stops people from coming back as ghosts. I like the flavour of it a lot as a Dusk power but mmm, not sure how well it'd work in practice.

              Originally posted by armyofwhispers View Post
              Midnight: 1. Should prob limit the terrified obedience thing to be linked with essence somehow. Not cool to be able to call nephracks to heel at char gen, Or the twin monarchs (if they're still even a thing)
              2. Should probably introduce a roll to interpret the neverborn ravings. It's pretty unclear how it works atm.
              I think nephwracks and such should have good enough resolve and conflicting intimacies to beat a major tie unless you were already pretty well set up to boss them around, in which case the anima pushing you over the edge is fine in my books. The lack of mechanics for the whispers thing is definitely an issue though, I wussed out on coming up with proper mechanics for it because I couldn't think of a good way to do it. I'll try to figure something out.

              Originally posted by armyofwhispers View Post
              Blood Feasting Technique: This raises some questions for me. It's your choice to include a straight up cannibalism charm, but how do Abyssals without this charm survive in the underworld? If they have hunger, do they eat regular food? Are they forced to eat underworld food and this charm allows them to survive in creation? If they Why do they need to eat at all? And above all, do we really need a cannibalism-specific charm?

              Wretched Nightmare Beast: Being able to go immaterial is a big deal in Exalted. 1WP is way under-costed for that power. Note that this costs 60m, 1wp for a lesser elemental dragon. This should never be something accessible to garden variety familiars. Materialize is cheaper at 35m, 1wp as well.

              Infallible Barghest Mein: Is this having a sample of blood required to track? It's ambiguous if that's the intention.
              Abyssals don't need specific charms to eat food, regardless of which world they're in. You'd need survival dots to forage for food by yourself if you are for some reason cut off from all the infrastructure available to most Abyssals, but no more than that.

              The familiar's immaterialisation thing is mote-free because animals don't have essence to spend. If you have some supernatural being as a familiar by some means then it should have the standard cost of half its mote pool.

              And no, blood isn't required, that's just a little perk. Clarified the wording.


              Infernals - To Rule in Hell
              Simple Solar > Abyssal conversion rules
              3e Dragon Kings
              My martial arts

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Lanaya View Post
                Abyssals don't need specific charms to eat food, regardless of which world they're in. You'd need survival dots to forage for food by yourself if you are for some reason cut off from all the infrastructure available to most Abyssals, but no more than that.
                So abyssals are still alive in the sense of needing food and stuff and that food is readily available in the underworld? Seems odd to me but no big deal. Still not super happy with the cannibalism charm as a theme but that's just preference I guess.
                Originally posted by Lanaya View Post
                The familiar's immaterialisation thing is mote-free because animals don't have essence to spend. If you have some supernatural being as a familiar by some means then it should have the standard cost of half its mote pool.
                Other magical effects you can teach your familiar are paid out of personal motes. You teach your familiar to shoot lasers out of its eyes? Still your motes powering that.
                Familiars should not get a discount on something as powerful as becoming immaterial.


                Check out my homebrew exalt: The Fabulists - Chosen of the Raksha here

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