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Where we speculate on which Yozi themes are going to be in each ability

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  • Where we speculate on which Yozi themes are going to be in each ability

    Originally posted by Kell_Tamer View Post

    Speaking of Izzy, now that the infernals are going Ability based charms, will we be seeing some non reclamation yozi emulating charms in the ability trees? For instance immense strength from Isidoros or maybe some linguistics from Elloge?
    Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
    That's probably the most exciting part of Ability-based Infernal Charms.
    So this is a thing. Basically what I'm asking is which Yozi themes fit best in each ability? We've only got 15 named Yozi with various amounts of knowledge on each, so we're pretty much guaranteed of having multiple Yozi themes informing each ability charmset and each Yozi's themes being used in multiple different places so I'd like to throw it open to speculation as to which ones should go where! Appologies in advance for poor spelling

    Archery -
    This one is tough. Not a lot of the Yozi use weapons in this way. Possibly Malfeas for his nuclear laser beam type stuff.

    Athletics - Adorjan, Isodorous
    Because speed and strength are their deals respectively

    Awareness - Sachravell
    Sees all nuff said.

    Brawl - Isodorous, possibly Kimberry
    Kimberry because Tentacles. So. Many. Tentacles

    Bureaucracy - She Who Lives in Her Name, Cecelyne
    Pretty self explanatory

    Craft -
    Unless the infernals get access to Autochthonian themes I don't think there's a clear winner here.

    Dodge - Adorjan, TED
    The slippery ones

    Integrity - Qaf, Isodorous
    All the Yozi are pretty static and immutable, but these two seem to fit the themes better

    Investigation - Sachravell
    Same as awareness really.

    Larceny - Adorjan, TED
    Not actually sure that either is a great fit here.

    Linguistics - Elloge

    Lore -
    tricky one. Maybe Sacheravel?

    Martial Arts- N/A

    Medicine - Hegra
    I shudder to think what the infernal Medicine tree is gonna look like, but Hegra and her drugs seem to fit in there some. Plus psychology is contained in Medicine.

    Melee -
    Same as Archery there's no clear winner here. Perhaps Qaf as he's the Heaven Violating 'Spear'

    Occult - Oramus
    He's gotta have something and bending reality is kinda his deal.

    Performance - Malfeas, Kimberry, and/or Cecelyne
    The big leaders need performance I'd say. Plus Malfean dance

    Presence - Sorzeny, TED

    Resistance - Malfeas, Meatgaos
    Meta is a little weaker here, but definitely Malfeas.

    Ride -
    Possibly SWLiHN as a possession type thing? Maybe TED to 'ride' in shadows? Not clear though.

    Sail - Kimberry
    Because of course

    Socialize - Sorzeny, TED, Cecelyne
    Cecelyne is in here because she's all about the heirarchy. Weaker than others.

    Stealth - TED, Adorjan
    These two share a few abilities it seems.

    Survival - Metagaos, Kimberry
    Kimberry here as the mother of monsters themes she's got going. Meta as more of a eat anything type.

    Thrown -
    not really sure.

    War - Cecelyne, Malfeas
    Heriarchy and Command.

    What do you guys think? Any of these I'm completely off base on? I know that all the named Yozi aren't in here, are there any significant associations that I'm missing here?

    Check out my homebrew exalt: The Fabulists - Chosen of the Raksha here

  • #2
    Malfeas is probably gonna have a few charms in all the combat abilities. In fact most yozis will, probably. Except Adorjan, if she still hates ranged attacks.

    As for craft, the major demonic crafters are Ligier and Alveua, so Malfeas/Ebon Dragon there, I guess?


    • #3
      Originally posted by armyofwhispers View Post
      So this is a thing.
      So it is! I'll just provide a few ideas.

      Archery - I would like SHLiHN to inspire bow-less telekinesis Archery. That would be a real neat new take.

      Awareness - I'd like to see some Malfeas-themed version of Eye of the Unconquered Sun. "I'm so overwhelming, you cannot possibly hide from my might."

      Craft - Malfeas by way of Ligier. He has quite the panalopy, hand-crafted.

      Investigation - SWLiHN by way of Munaxes. All those betraying whispers!

      Lore - Cecelyne by way of Orabilis. Destroyer of Wisdom!

      Martial Arts - Adorjan. "I am silent because my fists speak for me."

      Melee - Malfeas' Slayers literally have two crossed swords as their Castemark. I would be disappointed to not see Malfeas here.

      Occult - Every Yozi had their flavor of sorcery. I wonder how 3rd will deal with that.

      Ride - SWLiHN gets my vote. The horse and the rider have a perfected hierarchy, accomplishing more by accepting their roles than they could alone.

      Thrown - I'd like to see Adorjan-as-hurricane, tossing everything not nailed down into the air at somebody, as a capstone Charm.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Tikor View Post

        Martial Arts - Adorjan. "I am silent because my fists speak for me."
        Note that Martial Arts is listed as N/A because there are no native MA charms. If you want native punching charms you go to Brawl.

        There absolutely may be MA styles based on various Yozi, but those will be MA charms, not infernal charms if you take my meaning.

        Check out my homebrew exalt: The Fabulists - Chosen of the Raksha here


        • #5
          Any ideas how excellencies could work? Maybe something similar to the old theme-based excellencies, but you get them for taking the charms of a certain yozi?


          • #6
            Originally posted by Elfive View Post
            Any ideas how excellencies could work? Maybe something similar to the old theme-based excellencies, but you get them for taking the charms of a certain yozi?
            This is a damn good question.

            I could see them going a few different ways: a) they could go the Solar route and just make them simple ability excellencies where you get them free with favored skills/ when you buy charms in a tree or b) do something similar to what they're apparently doing with DB and make them stand-alone charms that do more than just add dice. I don't think we've got any info one way or the other on infernals. I doubt the devs have really thought about it yet.

            Check out my homebrew exalt: The Fabulists - Chosen of the Raksha here


            • #7
              I don't forsee their old yozi-based excellencies (or more behavior-warping permanent charms for that matter) to return in the same way, but I think there's space for tighter charms in some abilities which mechanically encourage the expression of similar concepts or offer other kinds of bonuses.


              • #8
                My list, with a bit where there are some areas where I think you'll probably see more "generally Infernal" themes take over than trying to force every Ability to exude a Yozi, plus I think a coupel who's nature (and literary role) is to have as little about them as possible to keep their narrative weight (Sachveriel and Cytherea).

                So the list for me:
                Malfeas due to sunfire and all that fun jazz. Cecylene because of concepts of crossing distance and space.

                Isidoros for smashy stuff. Adorjan for zoomy stuff.

                Cecylene as kind of the lawgiver of Hell and the one who keeps order. Ebon Dragon and Adorjan probably have good themes to draw on with piercing darkness and illusions, as well as hearing or something. Good to be aware for that sorta stuff afterall. I could see general Yozi themes of semi-omnisicence here too.

                Malfeas for smashy I guess, same with Isidoros. I can see this having a lot of maybe bio-horror type stuff an dpalying on the themes that were in Infernal Monster Style in 2e.

                She Who Lives in Her Name is obvious for her being the order-critter, but Cecylene is also interesting for again, being Hell's lawgiver. Hegra has this neat anarchocapitalist thing if I remember right that would fit too.

                Pretty much all of Malfeas' souls deal with crafting in some form and I see that influencing a lot of Charms here. Though I can see Infernals having a kind of generic good at making shit paradigm, though often skewed to alien or exotic things.

                Ebon Dragon, Adorjan, Oramus. Slippery Yozis, as said already.

                Qaf for kind of having this theme of indomitability if his "Of Yozis Less Spken" is to go by. Though I think this is another area where Infernals drawing on general Yozi themes of hubris, pride, ego, and all that play in, as well as forging your own legend.

                Cecylene for again, being Hell's lawmaker I think fits here.

                Szoreny is probably gonna pick up some of the "nemesis" stuff the Ebon Dragon was rocking in 2e. Ebon Dragon and Oramus seem good ones for escape and all that though and breaking into shit.

                Elloge, though I always felt that Yozi was really tenuous in justifying its existance. She Who Lives in Her Name though since she's all about a word infecting people and such in her original write-up and th eordr stuff invovled ther.e

                The Ebon Dragon actually is pretty great here in context of forbidden lore and such. Probably some stuff revolving about cults and secrets and all that being a general theme for them I think.

                Metagaos and causing/eating diseases seems fitting here. Kimbery too. I see Infernal medicine getting "messy" if that makes sense.

                Seems to fit Malfeas to me for the whole thing with just metal, hellfire, and all that feels just Infernaly in general. Adorjan too for speed and her thematics of close range fighting.

                I see this one being just something all Yozis get bits in or having Infernal tehemes in general. I don't think any given Yozi fits this more than any other, and I think this might be better a place to just play up a lot o funique Infernal themes rather than aping Yozis too much.

                Kind of as above. All Yozis are great dancers and love music. So I can see again this being a place where the Infernals play on just themes of Yozis as a whole than trying to play on any parituclar one.

                Mafleas is big and shiny as fuck, yo. Isidoros is big and hard to ignore. She Who Lives in Her Name has her overwelming mental presence. Lots of things to work with here.

                Turning into brass-metal flame bodies seems about right. Qaf has some probably transindental themes to work with. Kimbery is a sea of acid and Metagaos is a source of a lot of disease. I see this having a bit of idps from a few places.

                She Who Lives in Her Name would be intersting for mind-controlling your mount to your services and servitidue to me. This is one where things can get amusingly exotic.

                Kimbery, which should surprise no on. Maybe Cecylene for ideas of distance and space to play with.

                Ebon Dragon is pretty obvious. There was some cool ideas with Adorjan though in the Infenral preview, so my guess it shows that we can probably expect a few more sideways appraoches to Infernal stuff too.

                Szoreny for being able to read fols like books seems about right here.

                Metagaos and Cecylene seem to be a couple of the more exotic/harsh environments of Hell. I could see a lot of Infernal Charms being written with ideas of resisting exotic demonic shit and using those to be the justificationf or mechanics.

                Ebon Dragon for shadow attacks and all that. Hegra has lightning bolts. Sure there are things that can work with these somewhere.

                She Who Lives in Her Name to make your army a bunch of drone-like clockwork soldiers would be cool. Cecylene to push hordes of Fremen-like zealots is also fitting. Lotta options here.

                Martial Arts
                My guess here is no one really gets this special. You get it if youw ant Brawl, but it's just playing on enough outside themes I don't see Infernals being especially great at these.

                And stuff.
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                • #9
                  Mostly modifying the list in the OP:

                  Archery - TED
                  This fits in with his theme of cowardice and fighting from afar

                  Athletics - Adorjan, Isodorous
                  Speed and Strength, respectively

                  Awareness - Sachravell, Adorjan, Metagaos
                  Seeing, hearing, tasting

                  Brawl - Isodorous, maybe Malfeas and Adorjan
                  Strength for the first two, speed for the second.
                  Let's not forget that Infernal Brawl will likely take a lot from Infernal monster style

                  Bureaucracy - She Who Lives in Her Name, Cecelyne
                  Easy, might have TED for subverting order

                  Craft -She Who Lives in Her Name, Oramus, Cytheria
                  Creating perfect order and impossible creations, not to mention the creator of Creation herself

                  Dodge - Adorjan, TED
                  Thy had these in 2e, so why not?

                  Integrity - TED, Malfeas
                  TED just naturally disobedient and Malfeas has "I am the King and my word is final"

                  Investigation - Sachravell, She Who Lives in Her Name
                  Superhuman sight plus seeing the rder of things

                  Larceny - Adorjan, TED
                  Self explanatory

                  Linguistics - Elloge
                  Self explanitory

                  Lore - She Who Lives in Her Name
                  She kind of has a "knows everything" vibe

                  Medicine - She Who Lives in Her Name
                  What is a human body but of construct of flesh and bone?

                  Melee - Malfeas, Adorjan
                  Malfeas had spears, didn't he? Adorjan is an "Up close and personal" type

                  Occult - She Who Lives in Her Name
                  Created the Perfected Hierarchy, sorcery will likely be Yozi agnostic

                  Performance - Malfeas, Kimberry, and/or Cecelyne

                  Presence - Sorzeny, TED

                  Resistance - Malfeas, Metagaos

                  Ride - Could be anything really

                  Sail - Kimberry

                  Socialize - Sorzeny, TED, Cecelyne

                  Stealth - TED, Adorjan

                  Survival - Metagaos, Kimberry

                  Thrown - TED for the same reasons as archery

                  War - Cecelyne, Malfeas


                  • #10
                    I feel as though something more like Dragon Blooded having any of the elements in all of the Abilities would be less... on the nose.

                    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
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                    • #11
                      I'd love to see Elloge Craft charms that let you speak simple objects into existence. The idea of using words to shape reality is very appealing.


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                        I feel as though something more like Dragon Blooded having any of the elements in all of the Abilities would be less... on the nose.
                        I'm honestly not sure what you're suggesting here. Do you mean that you want to see any of the yozi influence in any given ability tree? Or do you mean something I'm missing here? Can you elaborate?

                        Check out my homebrew exalt: The Fabulists - Chosen of the Raksha here


                        • #13
                          To respond to the original question posed by the thread, I mirror Blaque's thoughts that several of their charmtrees are likely to have general Infernal motifs that do not reflect any singular yozi, and mostly just second his list. I had thought of possession and mind-control in Ride, but not to associate it with She Who Lives In Her Name. That's a good one.

                          Some additional thoughts: Infernal Monster Style seems likely to become the central thesis for Infernal Brawl, though I can conceive of some Kimbery making it there in addition to Malfeas or Isidoros. Alien space-warping architecture and mad artistry are things that respectively fit Hell in general and Oramus, so I could also see them finding a home in Craft. Occult is probably where we'll see charms to create new demons that express aspects of your psyche or a personal otherworld in your soul, reusing some of the ideas of Devil Tiger. I strongly picture Szoreny influencing War alongside Cecelyne and She Who Lives In Her Name.
                          Last edited by YeOfLittleFaith; 11-10-2017, 02:51 PM.


                          • #14
                            I absolutely agree that there'll be some stuff in there that isn't associated with any one Yozi. I'd honestly be a little sad if Infernal Monster Style wasn't resurrected in the form of Infernal brawl charms.

                            Plus as I stated in the other thread on Infernal Complexity, I fully expect that while the Yozi will be the themes that start some of these charmsets and most base charms will be based on Yozi themes, infernals will have their own unique takes on everything and will use the themes of the Yozi to build a completely different set of powers and charms. Much like balance and speed charms = running over water, I expect things like Adorjan's never stop moving + Isodorous's break everything in my way = The Juggernaut and other synnergies that borrow form multiple themes and create something uniquely infernal.

                            I guess I kinda expect the infernal charmset to basically end up like heretical charms in Broken Wing Crane minus the become a new titan but with no fetich soul stuff. At least the higher end charms probably might look that way.

                            Check out my homebrew exalt: The Fabulists - Chosen of the Raksha here


                            • #15
                              No, Dragon Blooded elements was the wrong approach; they're too dissimilar, and it's easier to put elements in everything when there's only five.

                              ​More like the Abyssals preview description of the Bishop of the Chalcedony Thurible, which ended with a list of associations and purposes that could serve as lines of inspiration for deathknight Charms. Even just one of those, such as 'dark evangelism' could be the kind of thing spread across multiple Abilities, which would not belong solely to that Deathlord.

                              ​I think there were issues with the Infernal Excellencies as descriptions of actual Yozis, but they might still be a starting point for ways that Yozi-flavoured human activity might go.

                              ​(Except for the Ebon Dragon)

                              ​For a start, I feel as though Cecylene should be an inspiration for Awareness Charms; her factor as the one who creates and enforces their law and the scrutiny that this implies, extending all the way to her omnipresence and stretching to infinity, motifs that extend down through her in Orabilis and Lucien (and a few souls for the End of Wisdom of my own devising).

                              ​If there can be a Stealth Charm to turn you into an invisible ball of lacerating wind, I wouldn't see much of a stretch in an Awareness Charm to spread out as sand in order to acquire insights and information.

                              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                              Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                     Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)