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Lunar martial artists just got a lot more interesting to me

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  • Lunar martial artists just got a lot more interesting to me

    Originally posted by Gonzo
    Have you planned a new way for Lunars to interact with MA?
    Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
    They can combo them with all their native Charms, which is pretty darn strong.
    Wow, "pretty darn strong" feels like an understatement. Solars with Mastery VS Lunar mixing MA with native Charms will likely lead to some damn amazing kung fu duels.


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  • #2
    Also consider this applies to all Attribute-based Exalts, meaning Alchemicals and Liminals can do this as well. Body horror kung fu, anyone?


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    • #3
      (I'll add the obvious caveat that if this ends up being broken in playtesting, we'll change it)


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      • #4
        Originally posted by danelsan View Post
        Wow, "pretty darn strong" feels like an understatement. Solars with Mastery VS Lunar mixing MA with native Charms will likely lead to some damn amazing kung fu duels.
        It is and it isn't.
        As you point out, Lunars can mix MA with their Dex charms (of course; the reason you can't combine Brawl and Martial Arts charms is that it's impossible to roll Brawl and Martial Arts at the same time. Whereas, of course you roll Dex+Martial Arts, and so can apply both Martial Arts and Dex), but Solars just have better MA charms.

        Also, don't forget that Lunars can't use MA when in animal form (not sure about DBT).

        So, there might be some good synergies combining MA and Dex charms (and, of course, MA and Strength charms, MA and Stamina charms, etc, but Solars can also use Resistance and MA charms combined to boost their soak or whatever, so that's not a Lunar advantage), but MA is, otherwise, not a particularly strong option for Lunars.

        Honestly, while of course I haven't seem them playtested, I suspect Lunars need some particular reason to take MA*, or it'd be a very subpar, and thus rather rare, choice, compared to native Lunar charms which can be used while you're a Tyrant Lizard.

        *Besides Lunar XP, I guess. But no idea how that will work, so can't really comment.

        Which is a pity, because obviously Snake-totem Lunar with Snake style/Tiger-totem Lunar with Tiger style/Crane-totem Lunar with Crane style is too appropriate a character to nerf.


        Also... the fact that you can't combine Brawl with MA (or Melee with MA), except that, in certain situations, you can (I mean that you can attack with MA and parry with Melee) is quite confusing for some players.
        So saying "you can't use MA charms on a Dex+Martial Arts roll if you also use a Dex charm" might be even worse. It's just easier to say you can use (and could be mechanically interesting**).


        **As you say, I think it'd be fun to see the Solar with stronger MA fight the Lunar who has weaker MA, but combines them easier with their own charms for unique combos.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
          (I'll add the obvious caveat that if this ends up being broken in playtesting, we'll change it)
          Haha, I already had that in mind, but it is better to have shitstorm-prevention-prana activated from the outset XD

          And I can certainly see the potential for things to end up broken. Since Lunars are being designed not to feel really left behind in mixed group with Solars, it is not hard to imagine stupidly strong combinations cropping up when mixed with MA, especially with the breadth of possibilities involved. I mean, it is very likely that, even if it turns out fine in playtest, someone is gonna eventually find a couple edge cases that end up too strong.

          I wonder if pacing of power growth might be an issue. For Ability-based Exalts, while they can invest in combat Charms that can synergize with MA bought with splat-name XP, Atribute-based Exalts get more bang for their buck that way by being able to mix it up much better. Then again, Solars get Supernal Abilities, so they can skip ahead on the power curve, so it is probably not an issue.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by danelsan View Post

            Haha, I already had that in mind
            techniiiiiiiques


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            • #7
              Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
              Also, don't forget that Lunars can't use MA when in animal form (not sure about DBT).
              Is this confirmed or is it one of those things that was the case in 2e and people are just assuming it still is?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post

                Is this confirmed or is it one of those things that was the case in 2e and people are just assuming it still is?
                It was the last word on the subject in 3E that I know of. To prevent weird stuff like Tyrant Lizards with oversized stat pools interacting with Charms not designed for that.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ren9077 View Post
                  It was the last word on the subject in 3E that I know of. To prevent weird stuff like Tyrant Lizards with oversized stat pools interacting with Charms not designed for that.
                  It also removes the need to nail down an animal's exact Attributes; this way, you generally will never roll Martial Arts while in an animal form, so it doesn't matter what their Dexterity is.


                  Anyway, since Lunar Exalted have amazing potential for unarmed combat just by using animal forms, and since Martial Arts generally don't mix with animal forms unless specifically design to work for inhuman forms...

                  Seems to me that the Styles which offer the most use to Lunar Exalted are those that focus heavily on weapons, so that when a Lunar wants to use a weapon instead of claws, he's got as many tricks as possible for that weapon.

                  Then there are Styles like White Veil, Black Claw, and Dreaming Pearl Courtesan, for a Lunar who wants to fuck things up while also sticking entirely to a human form, in order to hide her nature.


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                  • #10
                    Having thought about it, I think one of the implications of this that matters the most to me personally is the possibility that it will be an outstanding instance of Lunar power expressed primarily in superhuman terms.

                    ​Don't get me wrong, I'm a big advocate for the animal and predator and shapeshifting imagery, but there are still some places where I think it's good for Lunar power to be focused on superhuman accomplishment, and I think being able to combine their power with Martial Arts could be a strong example of this.

                    ​Mind, if they end up having a lot of predator or shapeshifting stuff that combines with them as well, it might also represent an instance in which Lunars are able to give a unique spin, whether in execution or visuals, on something that is otherwise common between the other Exalted, which also seems like it could be a good way to characterize them.


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                    • #11
                      As I've said before... I want to be able to make Morgiana from Magi as a Lunar.


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                      • #12
                        Given the glee of being able to combo charms, imagine the mote cost for that. Sure you can go nova but the mote pool would most probably run empty after that spectacular display.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CharonFerryman View Post
                          Given the glee of being able to combo charms, imagine the mote cost for that. Sure you can go nova but the mote pool would most probably run empty after that spectacular display.
                          Most Exalted aren't best-served by throwing every available Charm onto every attack, sure. On the other hand, having a few bread-and-butter style Charms to mix into your options for Martial Arts attacks, or the opportunity to sneak in some nasty esoteric Lunar stuff with your Martial Arts, can certainly make a fight with a Lunar martial artist challenging and distinct from a Solar or Sidereal.

                          Plus, the Abracapocalypse solution is occasionally appropriate and hilarious.

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                          • #14
                            I think Lunar MA could get very cool inspirations from non-chinese martial traditions. I know there are the typical animal styles, but in the past, people have debated about how Lunars didn't need to emulate creatures they can take the shape of.

                            African, polynesian, european, and even native american combat systems could work really well as inspirations for the type of styles that the Lunars have created through thery history.


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                            • #15
                              Speaking of how Lunars interact with certain mechanics. Don't they lose access to Evocations in their Warform.

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