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The position of the sun over the day

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  • The position of the sun over the day

    To be brief -- is the sun exactly above me or the Imperial Mountain at noon? Is the sun's apparent position the same an hour before sunset in far West and far East, or is the sun's apparent position higher in the West and lower in the East?

    Bonus question: Does the sun and the Imperial Mountain cast a shadow that is half the length of the physical world a second or so before sunset?

    Please send help.

  • #2
    I've found that it's best not to think about it much. :P


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    • #3
      While this started as a silly question... It could be an interesting flavorful detail. Describing how the evening twilight passes so quickly in the West to characters new to the place could be fun.

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      • #4
        When thinking about the Imperial Mountain as this super large mountain, I get a picture in my head of Creation as a sundial, where one part of it will not see the sun depending on which side of the mountain it's at. I don't like that, because it messes with the impression of dawn and twilight, and I hope that I'm overestimating the influence of the Imperial Mountain.

        It could be that the mountain has no effect on dawn or twilight at all unless you're really close to the mountain, and the light bends around it to the point where you can enjoy a full sunrise or sunset. If that's how it works, I'm perfectly happy with it.


        Ekorren's Homebrew Hub - Last Update: February 15, 2018

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Ekorren View Post
          I've found that it's best not to think about it much. :P
          It's important to figure out how celestial nevigation works in Creation!

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          • #6
            You could try cribbing the positions from vaguely similar places in the northern hemisphere, since Creation works off of "South = Hot".

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            • #7
              Light does spread out over long distances. However, I don't know enough about the physics of light off hand to know exactly what would happen to the shadow of a five mile tall mountain, but I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't reach all the way to the ends of Creation.


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              • #8
                Originally posted by szp View Post
                To be brief -- is the sun exactly above me or the Imperial Mountain at noon?
                It probably depends on the season, and where in the world one happens to be. The one place in the line that has really discussed the movement of celestial objects said that the path of the sun veers north and south depending on the time of year.

                ​It's probably not the case that the sun has weird metaphysics in which it is essentially overhead at noon of every day.

                Originally posted by szp
                Is the sun's apparent position the same an hour before sunset in far West and far East, or is the sun's apparent position higher in the West and lower in the East?
                I don't quite understand this question.

                Originally posted by szp
                Bonus question: Does the sun and the Imperial Mountain cast a shadow that is half the length of the physical world a second or so before sunset?
                Maybe? For that length of time and at the ambient light levels, it doesn't seem to me that it would be distinguishable, so why not?


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by szp View Post
                  While this started as a silly question... It could be an interesting flavorful detail. Describing how the evening twilight passes so quickly in the West to characters new to the place could be fun.
                  I've actually described it the other way around, taking a page from Death's Master. The further West you go, the longer the sunset, and the quicker the sunrise.

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                  • #10
                    I had wondered about this. I guessed that the eastern side of the Blessed Isle would be in shadow at twilight and the western side of the BI would be in shadow in the dawn. Everyone else would have what we would consider "normal" sunrises and sunsets being so far from the mountain.
                    But here's a question that'll REALLY bake your noodle. There is the suggestion that after making the Solar Exalted, the sun set for the first time. So, what did it do before that?
                    Did it float in the center of the sky all day and "turn around" to allow night? Discuss.


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                    • #11
                      People seem to forget that the Imperial Mountain, much like Mount Everest, is surrounded by lesser-but-still-pretty-big mountains. That, coupled with the fact that light and air themselves are not perfectly opaque, means that the Imperial Mountain wouldn't really be viewable from more than a couple dozen miles away, depending on atmospheric conditions.

                      Here is an example: On a perfectly-clear day, you can see Mount Fuji from Tokyo, and it is about 60 miles away. On anything other than a perfectly-clear day, you can't see it.

                      http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...38#post1104338

                      There is also no real indication of how tall the Imperial Mountain is. All 3E says is that it 'rises miles into the sky" (pg 63)

                      The peak of Mount Everest, for example, is ~29,000 feet above sea level, so technically that fits the description. Even if you want to think of it as higher.... it still won't make a shadow covering a continent.

                      Note that there are settlements, not just around Mount Everest, but in mountainous regions across the globe, that receive less/no sunlight at certain parts of the year, due to the lower angle of the sun rising into the sky, and the shadows cast by the surrounding mountains.

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                      • #12
                        I think that the interaction between light and mountains might be different on a flat world where the day is based on the sun passing through a semi-circular arc in the air than it is to a spherical world in which the day is based on the rotation of that sphere relative to a sun that, in this frame of reference, basically stays still.


                        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                        Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                        https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                        • #13
                          You know, the question of the Sun's movement over a flat world raises questions about timekeeping in general. I think there's no real need for "time zones" in Creation, since dawn and sunset are still the same time for everyone (the world being flat), but since, as you point out, NOON is not easily measurable from anywhere but the Blessed Isle...

                          I'd think creating an accurate sundial in most regions of Creation would be a really difficult process, and rather than their accuracy being dependent on north/south latitude like they do IRL, it would depend primarily on east/west longitude.

                          You could even argue that that's a contributing factor to why the Blessed Isle has always been more affluent than the Threshold... of course, there's plenty of political / societal reasons for that, but they've also probably had access to accurate timekeeping much more consistently, helping promote a more regimented, urban lifestyle.

                          You also wonder if the Sun-worshipping religious ceremonies in, say, Rathess, which is well East of center, were calibrated to "local" noon instead of "true" noon, since it's more dramatic to have the Sun directly overhead of your location rather than angled off to the West.

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                          • #14
                            Isn't Creation flat? I think with a super giant mountain right smack at the center should be viewable from any known civilization in any Direction as long as your line of sight isn't blocked by anything else.

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                            • #15
                              Creation is flat but also weird.

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