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do the other yozis stats work like the ebon dragon's?

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  • do the other yozis stats work like the ebon dragon's?

    for instance the ED doesn't have a motivation and the book says it is tied with "ego shell ascendancy" but i always thought that all primordials lack motivations and only have their urges. after all they can not think outside the box right?

    also do the rest also have a rating of 0 in all attributes?

  • #2
    In 2e the idea is that the primordials are essentially defined purely by charms. In some cases these charms are permanent and merely set their attributes and capabilities in some way that could easily be done with dots, but they're a charm so that ultimately it's all infernal-learnable.

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    • #3
      Why should a pantheon of colorful, storied titans be so lockstep identical?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
        Why should a pantheon of colorful, storied titans be so lockstep identical?
        This. TED didn't have attributes of his own because he was essentially a hollow being. The only charms that are probably those that read (Yozi) x, as those specifically were worded in a way that suggests you could put any Yozi in the name.


        My Mage 2e Homebrew

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        • #5
          Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
          Why should a pantheon of colorful, storied titans be so lockstep identical?
          Mechanical elegance!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Stephen Lea Sheppard View Post
            Mechanical elegance!
            (Laughs)

            (Begins weeping like protagonist at the end of In the Mouth of Madness)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

              (Laughs)

              (Begins weeping like protagonist at the end of In the Mouth of Madness)

              Oooh good choice. I've always enjoyed Lolzaku though.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqdNMHL5CW4


              Need some Tunes for your Exalted Game? http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...-exalted-tunes
              Want some help managing your PCs? http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...a-reincarnated

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mark View Post
                for instance the ED doesn't have a motivation and the book says it is tied with "ego shell ascendancy" but i always thought that all primordials lack motivations and only have their urges. after all they can not think outside the box right?

                also do the rest also have a rating of 0 in all attributes?
                ​I believe that Michael Goodwin's intention was that such a Charm was distinct to the Ebon Dragon, as an expression of his distinct form of existential emptiness. Much like how he conceived of other Primordials having Charms to let them have high Virtues of their own definition, compared to the Dragon having minimal Virtues because he was defined by the standards of others.

                ​I would say it was consistent that Goodwin saw the Charm that defined a character's stats according to compliance with their Excellency as common to all Primordials.


                I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                  ​I believe that Michael Goodwin's intention was that such a Charm was distinct to the Ebon Dragon, as an expression of his distinct form of existential emptiness. Much like how he conceived of other Primordials having Charms to let them have high Virtues of their own definition, compared to the Dragon having minimal Virtues because he was defined by the standards of others.

                  ​I would say it was consistent that Goodwin saw the Charm that defined a character's stats according to compliance with their Excellency as common to all Primordials.
                  i know that no other primordial(that we know) should have ego shell ascendancy. but do they have a motivation? i.e other than his presumed Urge "torture creation forever and then repeat" could Malfeas have a motivation that violated his Urge? like "make people respect me again" or "ask SWLIHN for a date" ? and what happens when they contradict each other?

                  likewise , i know that the ebon dragon is a hollow thing etc.. but one of his (yozi) essence 10 charms(forgot which) reduces the attributes of the one who learns it to 0. if this works like this for all yozis then(given that they lack charms that copy other beings attributes) this makes them pathetically weak compared to the ED. because they "only" roll 20 dice.

                  this is why i think that the ED was not an ideal choice for giving us a primordial template because he is so... unique.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mark View Post
                    but do they have a motivation? i.e other than his presumed Urge "torture creation forever and then repeat" could Malfeas have a motivation that violated his Urge? like "make people respect me again" or "ask SWLIHN for a date" ? and what happens when they contradict each other?
                    ​I think there may have been a sense at some point that Primordials could even have multiple Motivations at the same time. My take would be that Urge represents something essential and/or existential to them, while a Motivation would represent a want arising from their intelligence and personality, such as it was.

                    ​This being based on a vague recollection of some old ideas presented, and my own priorities; I think it's otherwise uncharted territory.

                    ​Certainly, if compelled to act contrary to their Urge, they would probably accumulate Limit going up towards their own Torments. The Ebon Dragon had one of those, didn't he? Something like fixation on accosting individuals, rather than focusing on his larger plans?

                    Originally posted by mark
                    likewise , i know that the ebon dragon is a hollow thing etc.. but one of his (yozi) essence 10 charms(forgot which) reduces the attributes of the one who learns it to 0. if this works like this for all yozis then(given that they lack charms that copy other beings attributes) this makes them pathetically weak compared to the ED. because they "only" roll 20 dice.
                    The Ebon Dragon isn't exactly going to commonly come across beings with higher Attributes than 10 that he's in a position to copy.

                    ​Regardless, if it had come up, I would have assumed that other Yozis had their own means of enhancing themselves that could make them stronger in several respects than the Dragon.


                    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                    Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                    • #11
                      The way the charm works is that they get 20 dice which they can then increase with excellencies. Every yozi but the Ebon Dragon had access to the second excellency in 2e, which means that they could add ten successes to any action within their themes.

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                      • #12
                        I'd also argue that their base dicepools for stuff is going to be dependant on their jouten. If I try to stab the Demon City Jouten I may do some damage to the local scenrey, but ultimatly this Jouten got infinite health levels. But that's just me.


                        My Mage 2e Homebrew

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                        • #13
                          I'm not sure the demon city is actually a jouten. It's supposed to be, like, the inner world that Primordials all have that was pulled out of him.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                            I'm not sure the demon city is actually a jouten. It's supposed to be, like, the inner world that Primordials all have that was pulled out of him.
                            ....

                            ​Okay, even if we're accommodating discussion of Second Edition principles, just... no. Too much nonsense. The Demon City is the body of Malfeas.

                            God.


                            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                            Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                            https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                              ....

                              ​Okay, even if we're accommodating discussion of Second Edition principles, just... no. Too much nonsense. The Demon City is the body of Malfeas.

                              God.
                              This. The Demon City is just as much Malfeas' body as the Brass Dancer is.

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