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do the other yozis stats work like the ebon dragon's?

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  • #16
    Yeah, but it's not really a jouten. It's like, his real body.

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    • #17
      Jouten are the real bodies of Primordials/Yozis.... they're just not limited to one real body.


      My Mage 2e Homebrew

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      • #18
        Yeah but city-malfeas is even more so.

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        • #19
          How so? And why?


          My Mage 2e Homebrew

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Elfive View Post
            Yeah but city-malfeas is even more so.
            [citation needed]

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Elfive View Post
              Yeah but city-malfeas is even more so.
              c
              not really except maybe in the sense that he could attack more people with it(if freed) than with his brass dancer form. if ANY jouten dies then he becomes a neverborn.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by mark View Post
                [the Demon City] could attack more people with it(if freed) than with his brass dancer form.
                I don't feel this is necessarily true, either - if Gozer the Gozerian emerges to wipe out humanity, it will do so whether it looks like J. Edgar Hoover or the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man, and it will terrify me beyond the capacity for rational thought.
                Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 02-09-2018, 10:07 AM.

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                • #23
                  In the section of Games of Divinity describing that aspect of the Yozis, it states that their nature defines their true forms at the same time as they often favour multiple other bodies.

                  It technically never says that the iconic forms that the five focus ones are described as having would be those true bodies, but it's the conclusion with the least number of assumptions.


                  I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                  Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                    The way the charm works is that they get 20 dice which they can then increase with excellencies. Every yozi but the Ebon Dragon had access to the second excellency in 2e, which means that they could add ten successes to any action within their themes.
                    i thought that each success counts as two dice and you can't stack them with first excellency.

                    plus the dragon does have a charm that makes his opponent fail, in return for not having the second excellency

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                    • #25
                      Yeah. they can add 20 dice with the first excellency, for a total of 40 dice, or roll 20 dice and get 10 auto successes.

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                      • #26
                        I imagine that trying to murder Malfeas by stabbing the ground in the demon city and stabbing the brass dancer are both equal exercises in futility. The fact that demons reshape his body to suit their needs does not indicate that you can overcome his soak and do real damage to him.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Exthalion View Post
                          I imagine that trying to murder Malfeas by stabbing the ground in the demon city and stabbing the brass dancer are both equal exercises in futility.
                          Hmmm...

                          ​Setting aside specific conceits of Second Edition for the time being, I don't think it's really in keeping with the spirit of the game for something like this to be an exercise in futility.

                          I presume that fighting the Brass Dancer is still something that requires a great deal of risk and effort to achieve, in which case responding that it was a futile gesture... well, it seems like poor form in most varieties of game in general, and specifically ill-suited to Exalted.

                          The game never developed a framework for fighting a Yozi other than the Ebon Dragon, but that still provided a basic example of mechanically interacting with that enemy in a way that allowed combat to beat him.

                          ​And being able to reshape one's body isn't exactly a basis to invalidate a capacity to fight them all on its own. You can apply that as the logic for a self-healing Charm maybe, but powers such as that still have costs and limits, and the Exalted aren't exactly bereft of powers that could be seen to cause damage on a fundamental enough level that reshaping yourself might not help.

                          ​Now, I'm not saying that killing Malfeas should be as simple as a lone Exalt slashing away at any random street, or that it should continue the Second Edition assumption that Ghost-Eating any one jouten would do the whole Primordial in.

                          ​But I'd say that if one happens to be engaging a Yozi in a form where combat on the scale of a small band of heroes, or even a lone one, combat powers should have the same utility there that they do everywhere else, and victory should achieve something.


                          I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                          Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                          https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                          • #28
                            Well this is just my own homebrew I guess that has no foundation in any canon fluff that I am aware of, but I tend to treat Jouten as beyond killable. Want to kill a Primordial? Kill all of it's souls.


                            My Mage 2e Homebrew

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                              Yeah, but it's not really a jouten. It's like, his real body.
                              ... that's literally all "jouten" means. It was a single term they came up with to refer to all the bodies of a Primordial (as distinct from its souls). It doesn't refer to one special body, leaving all other bodies without a term - that defeats the point of the word's existence.

                              Devil-Tigers have worlds within their soul as their expression of how Primordial bodies can be entire worlds. If they achieve final Primordial apotheosis as themselves (which would require their death, and their next incarnation learning [Me] Cosmic Principle) that world soul would likely permanently physically manifest as one of their jouten.


                              Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Exthalion View Post
                                I imagine that trying to murder Malfeas by stabbing the ground in the demon city and stabbing the brass dancer are both equal exercises in futility. The fact that demons reshape his body to suit their needs does not indicate that you can overcome his soak and do real damage to him.

                                Not without learning and exploiting the Greater Imperfection of the Demon City anyway...


                                Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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