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Hawkeye/Legolas/Hanzo Archer Martial Art Style Charms ideas - suggestions?

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  • Hawkeye/Legolas/Hanzo Archer Martial Art Style Charms ideas - suggestions?



    Rolling your Martial Arts Ability and using Style Charms, you can:
    • Parry with your bow
    • Strike people with your bow
    • Grapple and clinch or throw people with your bow
    • Make an Archery attack without penalty while grappling someone?
    • Garrote people with your bow-string?
    • Stab people with arrows as improvised knives
    • Use a gambit to blind someone by stabbing their eyes with arrows
    • Use a gambit to nail someone's feet / clothing to the floor / walls by stabbing them with an arrow or making an Archery attack
    • Injure someone by pulling an arrow out of them in order to shoot someone else
    • Parry an arrow with your barehand in order to make a reflexive Archery attack back at the attacker (Princess Mononoke's Ashitaka)
    Any other ideas?


    Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

    My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

  • #2
    Some of these might qualify as Stunts, such as parry, strike and stab with arrows.

    Comment


    • #3
      Or you could follow the historical precedent and have your archer carry a sword

      Comment


      • #4
        Still, it does sound like a legitimate MA style to build up, escepcially the melee archer concept that some of those exhibit.
        The two gambits do feel like normal gambits that should simply be available to all, OTOH.

        But for the "melee archer" thing, it just needs a couple extra tricks and a Form, and we'd have a nice MA focusing on melee, grapples,
        It's just a little sad that the arrow catching is a bit niche, because it's just awesome to pass up.

        Comment


        • #5
          Have you seen the scene in Avengers where Hawkeye fires a arrow in the air hitting the helicarrier in a vital spot? Or maybe that would be just a stunt with one of the vanilla charms.

          Lol mode: Firing a charm attached to oneself to fly into the distance.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DraMaFlo View Post
            Or you could follow the historical precedent and have your archer carry a sword
            If you're the exigent of the god of being boring, sure.

            Comment


            • #7
              I think there is some precedent here, and would be interested in the results. It just needs some flavor though, so it can be more like Righteous Devil or Ebon Shadow instead of Steel Devil.

              A ruthless hunter aesthetic could work, but it's also a little too obvious. Survivalist also seems a little on the nose, but that's all I'm coming up with.

              Movie Hawkeye doesn't have enough character in his fighting to be inspiration for an MA IMO, and while comic Hawkeye has plenty of flavor, I don't think lovable fuckup with a bow is the MA you're looking for (although Drunken Bow style does sound cool...). It's also been a long time since I've seen LoTR, but I recall Legolas being more of a judicious application of Archery, Athletics, and Melee, to the point that his dual swords are almost as iconic as his bow. I vaguely recall him doing some ridiculous CG fights in The Hobbit, but ew, no.

              Do you watch Arrow? Through the necessity of network television Oliver Queen doesn't really shoot people with bows too much, far more slapping in the face with it, and grapples. The singular vision for a goal and the scrappiness to accomplish it might give you a good thesis beyond "I want to only buy one ability for all ranges of combat."

              For balance reasons, you might have to avoid reflexive aims and tricks beyond Close range, as otherwise balance gets tricky.


              Raksha are my fae-vorite.

              Reincarnation of magnificentmomo.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by 2ptTakrill View Post
                Some of these might qualify as Stunts, such as parry, strike and stab with arrows.
                By that logic, we wouldn’t have any Martial Arts Styles at all. Why use Righteous Devil Style when you could just stunt all of the flamethrower tricks?


                Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post

                  By that logic, we wouldn’t have any Martial Arts Styles at all. Why use Righteous Devil Style when you could just stunt all of the flamethrower tricks?
                  And by this logic, why have Stunts or Solar Charms at all, when you could do it all with the Martial Arts system?

                  I'm not opposed to Martial Arts in general, or even this one in particular. I do, however, think that it's a good idea when considering the design of a Martial Art to consider how much of the concept is allowed under current rules, possibly with some stunts, refluff, or expansion, within the Chicanery Limit. Gating ideas behind a Martial Arts style is effectively telling a player that you need a specific Martial Arts to do those things, instead of allowing them through existing methods.

                  Again, not commenting on this particular Martial Arts style. Just commenting on the commentary on design philosophy.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ren9077 View Post
                    I’m not opposed to Martial Arts in general, or even this one in particular. I do, however, think that it's a good idea when considering the design of a Martial Art to consider how much of the concept is allowed under current rules, possibly with some stunts, refluff, or expansion, within the Chicanery Limit. Gating ideas behind a Martial Arts style is effectively telling a player that you need a specific Martial Arts to do those things, instead of allowing them through existing methods.

                    Again, not commenting on this particular Martial Arts style. Just commenting on the commentary on design philosophy.
                    Again, by your logic, players aren’t allowed to shoot firewands at the ground to start a firewall because Burning Judgment Halo is a Charm.

                    A Solar with a cestus can make a Smashing Attack to knock someone away, and never needs to buy Heaven Thunder Hammer. That Charm’s existence doesn’t prevent him from doing anything.


                    The idea of this proposed Martial Art would not be to enable, but rather *empower* the set of stunts representing tricks and techniques that assist in the use of the Archery Ability by which aren’t appropriate as Archery Charms.

                    There has never been an Archery Charm for parrying, striking, or grappling with your bow, and likely never will be.

                    As a melee weapon, a bow would sooner have the Martial Arts tag than the Melee tag.

                    Even otherwise, there will not be a Solar Melee Charm for grappling with a weapon, much less an Archery weapon.

                    Melee could let you stab people with arrows as improvised knives, but doesn’t allow for Charm-based gambits to blind by stabbing eye balls.
                    Last edited by Sunder the Gold; 02-07-2018, 01:56 PM.


                    Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                    My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                      *]Parry with your bow[*]Strike people with your bow
                      Treat the bow as an improvised melee weapon and these are already doable by RAW.

                      Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                      [*]Grapple and clinch or throw people with your bow
                      A Brawl-based gambit with a stunt?

                      Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                      [*]Make an Archery attack without penalty while grappling someone?
                      ...How would that even look like?

                      Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                      [*]Garrote people with your bow-string?
                      ...A decisive savage attack with a stunt. Also, how is the bow supposed to survive that?

                      Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                      [*]Stab people with arrows as improvised knives
                      Treat the arrows as improvised melee weapons and this is already doable by RAW.

                      Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                      [*]Use a gambit to blind someone by stabbing their eyes with arrows[*]Use a gambit to nail someone's feet / clothing to the floor / walls by stabbing them with an arrow or making an Archery attack
                      You don't need Charms to make a gambit (the latter is actually an example of something a mortal character did in Minton's game!).

                      Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                      [*]Injure someone by pulling an arrow out of them in order to shoot someone else
                      This one has legs.

                      Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                      [*]Parry an arrow with your barehand in order to make a reflexive Archery attack back at the attacker
                      Crane can already do that (and doesn't even need a bow for it!).
                      Last edited by aluminiumtrioxid; 02-07-2018, 02:08 PM.


                      Evocations for the demonic tattoos gained from the Pact with Mara sorcerous initiation || Pyre-Kindler (Soulsteel and Red Jade Grimscythe, Artifact 3) || Tenebrous Descent (Stormcaller's Black Jade Reaver Daiklave cousin, Artifact 5)
                      Advice for running the corebook shikari antagonists

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by aluminiumtrioxid View Post

                        ...A decisive savage attack with a stunt. Also, how is the bow supposed to survive that?
                        That's why it's a charm, obviously.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                          That's why it's a charm, obviously.
                          ..."I was using a Charm" doesn't help me visualize what is happening on the level of the fiction.


                          Evocations for the demonic tattoos gained from the Pact with Mara sorcerous initiation || Pyre-Kindler (Soulsteel and Red Jade Grimscythe, Artifact 3) || Tenebrous Descent (Stormcaller's Black Jade Reaver Daiklave cousin, Artifact 5)
                          Advice for running the corebook shikari antagonists

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by aluminiumtrioxid View Post
                            Treat the bow as an improvised melee weapon and these are already doable by RAW.
                            What if you want something more effective than that?

                            Why does Revolving Crescent Defense exist? Because someone wanted to parry better with White Reaper’s style weapons.

                            Why does Dreaming Pearl Courtesan have a Charm to turn improvised weapons into actual weapons, which can be treated as artifact weapons when using the Form Charm?


                            ...How would that even look like?
                            There’s a reason why I started the first post with a video of an archer kicking ass with his bow, you know.

                            Can you imagine that the video might have examples of all the tricks I listed afterwards? As if that was purposeful?

                            Just like how I posted an animated picture of the one trick that wasn’t in the video, directly after mentioning that trick?


                            Also, how is the bow supposed to survive that?
                            Maybe you’ve never read Dreaming Pearl Courtesan. Or Fists of Iron Technique. Or Charms in general - you know, those magical techniques by which heroes do impossible things?


                            Treat the arrows as improvised melee weapons and this is already doable by RAW.
                            People can use Melee to stab people with swords; Charms exist to help heroes stab people HARDER.

                            Why else does Greatest Killer Attitude or Essence Venom Strike exist? To hurt people MORE with a particular weapon than is possible with stunts.


                            You don't need Charms to make a gambit (the latter is actually an example of something a mortal character did in Minton's game!).
                            Then why do Snake Style and Tiger Stylr waste Charms on crippling gambits, when they can already cut and maim with hook swords and tiger claws?

                            Maybe because the Charm gambits are stronger than stunt gambits should be?


                            Crane can already do that (and doesn't even need a bow for it!).
                            Then the Charm would need some counterbalance. There are endless possibilities, starting with cheaper costs and not needing to use a Full Defense action.
                            Last edited by Sunder the Gold; 02-07-2018, 02:40 PM.


                            Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                            My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                              Why does Revolving Crescent Defense exist? Because someone wanted to parry better with White Reaper’s style weapons.

                              ...But that's not why Revolving Crescent Defense exists?

                              Revolving Crescent Defense exists because the martial artist's transcendent Essence flows through the mundane techniques of a martial art which exists to train its disciples to fight against multiple opponents, allowing her to become empowered by each strike made against her. It doesn't exist because an Exalt, at some point in their life, thought to themselves, "what if I wanted to become really good at parrying with a staff and a spear, but not a sword?" and made up a special technique just to do that.


                              Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                              Why else does Greatest Killer Attitude or Essence Venom Strike exist? To hurt people MORE with a particular weapon than is possible with stunts.

                              ...But that's not why Greatest Killer Attitude and Essence Venom Strike exist?

                              Greatest Killer Attitude is a supernatural expression of the martial artist's skill at slaying entire armies, which, incidentally, also makes them hit harder in a generic way (but not as effectively as the same hit would be if it hit an army). Similarly, Essence Venom Strike represents the height of skill and enlightenment,by which a master of the Snake style can manipulate their Essence to such extent that they can emulate the venomous bite of the style's namesake. If they existed solely to "hurt MORE with a particular weapon than is possible with stunts", you may as well swap the two and sense no thematic dissonance! After all, nothing in their fluff text is specific to hook swords and White Reaper weaponry...


                              Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                              Then why do Snake Style and Tiger Stylr waste Charms on crippling gambits, when they can already cut and maim with hook swords and tiger claws?

                              Maybe because the Charm gambits are stronger than stunt gambits should be?

                              Tiger style doesn't actually waste any Charms on crippling gambits. Also, Snake's gambits are thematic in a way that "I stab at a dude's eyes with arrows" is not.


                              Bottom line: you can't just collect a bunch of unrelated things that a person can normally do, say "I can do these, but magically better in an unspecified way!", and have a martial art! "I shoot arrows but I can also hit people with my bow" is not a martial art, in the same way "I shoot firewands but also hit people with them" is not a martial art, while Righteous Devil is.


                              Evocations for the demonic tattoos gained from the Pact with Mara sorcerous initiation || Pyre-Kindler (Soulsteel and Red Jade Grimscythe, Artifact 3) || Tenebrous Descent (Stormcaller's Black Jade Reaver Daiklave cousin, Artifact 5)
                              Advice for running the corebook shikari antagonists

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