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Hawkeye/Legolas/Hanzo Archer Martial Art Style Charms ideas - suggestions?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by aluminiumtrioxid View Post

    ..."I was using a Charm" doesn't help me visualize what is happening on the level of the fiction.
    How to garrote someone with a (n indestructible) bow: Stand behind target, place bow over head, pull back, twist bow 180 degrees. (optional) place foot in small of back and push for extra leverage.


    • #17
      Both sides of this debate have merit. Nearly all of the OPs listed actions can be accomplished with stunts and gambits. However, a martial art making use of a bow at close range to preform these feats also seems perfectly plausible. My question for the OP is: "how would you take a martial art based on your views to the next level?" Many of the abilities you initially mention are really at the mortal level of gameplay. So what are some of your ideas to really crank this up into an essence-powered martial art?

      Originally posted by Elfive View Post
      How to garrote someone with a (n indestructible) bow: Stand behind target, place bow over head, pull back, twist bow 180 degrees. (optional) place foot in small of back and push for extra leverage.
      While a certain level of suspension of disbelief is necessary for Exalted, this simply wouldn't work. I have a bow and shoot fairly frequently. Any bow that is capable of being twisted 180 degrees like you've suggested, would have such a hideously low draw weight it'd be useless at range. Even just slipping a bow over someone's head to try and strangle them would be highly ineffective even with a high draw weight. Without an artifact bow designed for this type of maneuver, or a martial art specifically using essence to alter a bow's mechanics, I wouldn't allow this at my table!


      • #18
        Originally posted by TalosX View Post
        Without an artifact bow designed for this type of maneuver, or a martial art specifically using essence to alter a bow's mechanics, I wouldn't allow this at my table!
        That's exactly what we're discussing.


        • #19
          I broadly agree that if all you want is to have a wide array of badass things you can do at close range while wielding a bow, you might be better served by just writing some Archery, Brawl, or Melee Charms to enhance your efforts to pull off things like that. Conditionally removing the Improvised Weapon penalty is something Charms can do, and would go a long way to providing narrative permission for a lot of badass close-range archery tricks. Charms (or Evocations?) to enhance or allow particular gambits can do the rest.

          What differentiates a Martial Art from a collection of stunts and tactics is that a Martial Art has (at least one) theme or archetype that is embodied by its Charms and mechanics. Crane Style isn't just a way to get good at counterattacks and Defend Other. It really only provides maximum narrative and mechanical benefit for the practitioner if your concept of fighting with this style involves defeating enemies without destroying them, by transforming their Intimacies with social influence as you fight. That's the theme of the style, and there's an emphasis on counterattacks and Defend Other actions because they are in keeping with the themes of preventing harm and only using force to meet force. There are plenty of other ways to employ those same tactics in combat, and it can actually be more effective to climb the Melee Charm tree if you're not interested in the themes presented by Crane Style.

          So the same consideration should be made in approaching a close-quarters archery based Martial Art. What need or desire of the practitioners (or ancient masters?) of this style pushed them to develop this specific style? Were they plagued by horrifying winged creatures that like to hunt by swooping down from above, carrying warriors into the sky, and dropping them? A foe that can stay out of reach indefinitely means you don't want to let go of your bow to switch weapons, and the risk of being carried into the air could justify all sorts of last-effort grappling tricks to avoid being dropped while you're fighting. Was this developed by peasantry in a place where carrying bladed weapons was restricted as a privilege of the nobility? This could justify all manner of tricks with parrying and disarming with archery, and could potentially pull in Survival as a related ability, since hunting is presumably the reason peasants were permitted bows. Is it a style that grew out of spiritual pursuit of meditational archery, which disdains the touch of any other weapon? That sounds like it should emphasize negating the penalties of close-range Archery, and perhaps provide counterattacks that demonstrate the inferiority of melee-based weaponry.

          Whatever it is you settle on, Martial Arts are distinguished by their specificity. There are some constraints imposed by a style. Not hard limits, but an attitude or approach to combat that is emphasized and encouraged by the style. If you can't lean into that emphasis, it's often better to use the Solar Charms to get where you need to go. That balancing element should be present in any Martial Art you design.

          All that said, I love melee archers in narrative, and I think that's fertile ground for a Martial Arts Style. I just also think starting from a list of cool melee archery tricks you want to be able to pull off isn't going to serve you well, unless you'd be equally happy to end up with a bunch of cool custom Solar Charms rather than a Martial Art.


          • #20
            Originally posted by Elfive View Post
            That's exactly what we're discussing.
            I know, my point was such an action is literally impossible outside of the magic. I probably didn't convey that all that well, so my apologies. That's what I get for posting just before I head to bed!


            • #21
              Honestly it seems like just having a charm that allows you to use your bow as a quarter staff can take care of most of the tricks here. That said I am now imagining a whole fighting style based around using weapons in unorthodox & unexpected ways like throwing arrows, shooting swords, and beating people with bows.


              • #22
                Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post

                Rolling your Martial Arts Ability and using Style Charms, you can:
                • Parry with your bow
                • Strike people with your bow
                • Grapple and clinch or throw people with your bow
                • Make an Archery attack without penalty while grappling someone?
                • Garrote people with your bow-string?
                • Stab people with arrows as improvised knives
                • Use a gambit to blind someone by stabbing their eyes with arrows
                • Use a gambit to nail someone's feet / clothing to the floor / walls by stabbing them with an arrow or making an Archery attack
                • Injure someone by pulling an arrow out of them in order to shoot someone else
                • Parry an arrow with your barehand in order to make a reflexive Archery attack back at the attacker (Princess Mononoke's Ashitaka)
                Any other ideas?

                My mind also feels a lot of this is more "stunt" based from other actions, and not saying its a bad thing.

                The first Martial Art tree that comes to mind is White Reaper since it plays with Pole-arms (a bow could be used as such; as an improvised weapon).

                The rest sounds more like custom charms for the Archery Tree that you could devise yourself. Such as fire an arrow to "COUNTER" an arrow; or catch the gout of fire-dust from a firewand in your own barrel and fire it back at the target for your last one.

                Just cause Charms don't exist, doesn't mean you can't make your own. I don't like the Exalted system as is, but I still have ideas for a Resistance Charm that allows me to store a "warstrider" elsewhere and summon it as needed (its an essence 4 charm that builds on the prerequisit of storing Armor elsewhere).

                My thinking is this "Archery-Martial-Art" may be inspired due to the "Gun-Fu" firewand martial art tree... which PERSONALLY I don't think SHOULD be a Martial Art tree at all (rather its charms should be re-incorporated into other Charm Trees). If the "Gun-Fu" style was out, would you still feel the Archery Style had a place in the game?

                I'm not saying your ideas are bad. Just saying, maybe look at the effects as charms first, then ask if they belong in a Martial Arts tree - or if they belong in existing trees?

                Support new ideas. If you must criticize, always offer advice to the creator on how they could improve, or even suggest alternative solutions to fix a problem you can see. Dismissive comments should be equally dismissed as attempts to grab attention. Focus only on contributions that help you grow and develop, and ignore jealous efforts to stunt your creative sparks.


                • #23
                  I Think wood Dragon styler was a MA was had the now as ITS weapon


                  • #24
                    Well my issue here is that we are discussing a martial art using bows so we need a theme stronger than, "All of those cool archery tricks from the movies." Giving your archery based Martial Art a theme helps to define what we should be discussing can be done. Once you have a theme these answers should come quite naturally.


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by light-hero View Post
                      I Think wood Dragon styler was a MA was had the now as ITS weapon

                      The Bow used to be an MA weapon for Wood Dragon Style. Now it's a bo staff IIIRC.

                      I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.