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What is the curent state of the Exalted game line?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Lioness View Post
    I kinda know what one of the Lunar foils is and they weren't exactly a huge problem that Lunar games need to revolve around.

    Based purely on my own observations - they're a threat that they've successfully kept contained unlike the Raksha who ran roughshod over them like they weren't there when it actually mattered. They're also mega creepy.
    Intriguing. Is there more you can share without violating a non-disclosure agreement?


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    • #17
      It's more that I don't want to mislead people with information that's outdated and required me to fill in a few blanks in the first place.



      Assorted homebrew goes here.
      Please help the Ex3 wiki grow. Even if it's just posting existing homebrew there so there's less chance of losing it.

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      • #18
        I'm not going to go down the list of questions, but unfortunately my experience with the game is significantly different than a lot of the other people who are on this forum. I've consistently had problems finding a group, with both experienced Exalted players and prospective people new to the setting both rejecting the system for various reasons. This is also one of two places that I know of where there are actual discussions of the system online. Because there don't seem to be any serious activity hubs online, there aren't many Play-by-Post games readily available either, which used to be my Exalted fallback if my local gaming circles were playing other systems.

        I'm glad other people are enjoying the system and would love to be one of the satisfied customers, but personally, my morale is pretty low.

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        • #19
          I've yet to play in a game, but I'm pretty jonesed about the gameline. I've really grown fond of the setting as I've read more about it, the core rules have been interesting and engaging to approach from a theoretical standpoint, the new material in Arms of the Chosen and the individual bestiary/antagonist releases is awesome, and the developers are a delight to interact with. It's also inspired me to spend a fair amount of time creating art for characters, which is a good measure of my enthusiasm for a RPG. Even if I never end up playing in a live game, I consider my Exalted purchases to have been money well spent for the entertainment value they've provided.
          Last edited by Matt the Bruins fan; 02-11-2018, 02:18 AM.

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          • #20
            There's a simple solution available to those who are having difficulties finding games: start one. Be the Storyteller. I know that I will never get to play the game myself, so I'm setting out to be the best Storyteller that I can be instead.


            Freelance writer for Exalted Third Edition.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by HighPriest View Post
              Because there don't seem to be any serious activity hubs online, there aren't many Play-by-Post games readily available either, which used to be my Exalted fallback if my local gaming circles were playing other systems.
              I did find some Exalted games on Giant in the Playground, but like many PbP games, I joined two and they were dead within a week.

              Originally posted by Ekorren
              There's a simple solution available to those who are having difficulties finding games: start one.
              I think High Priest's point is that people they know don't want to play it, because they don't like the system.


              I think the system is mostly good, but a bit over-complicated. But then, 2nd ed was also a bit over-complicated for much of the same reasons. It's only Craft and the initiative system that's become more complicated, and while I admit it did take the players a while to grok (it's quite un-intuitive for people used to the old system), everyone seems happy with the combat system now (it's also quicker than it used to be).
              Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 02-11-2018, 04:47 AM.


              "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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              • #22
                Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                I think High Priest's point is that people they know don't want to play it, because they don't like the system.
                It's possible to play on the Internet.

                It's not easy to get new players to try Exalted because of how complex the system is. If you can't get your friends to play (and guilt tripping them won't help to persuade them), then there's not much you can do other than to find games online. I'm fortunate to have friends who're willing to play any system I throw at them because they value the social element of playing a game more than the actual system itself.


                Freelance writer for Exalted Third Edition.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Simon Darkstep View Post
                  Got a link, perchance?
                  Here. They're also "optional canon."

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                  • #24
                    Cannots speak for everyone, nor give exact figures, but can give my subjective opinion on what I've seen

                    Originally posted by Daredevil View Post
                    What is the current state of the Exalted game line?
                    Its still going. The Dragon Bloods are on their way. Arms of the Chose came out - though I was disappointed in it as it just gave a speil on a lot of magic items, but no solid rules on creating your own. For some, that sandbox style may be awesome. For me, its was just the creators showing off creative ideas that a Game Master could have created themselves with much simplier and streamlined effects.

                    Originally posted by Daredevil View Post
                    Has it's increase in buyers out paced the gradual lose?
                    Couldn't say, but I feel the fan base is halved and this will PROBABLY lean towards loss over gain. While 3rd Ed did come up with some great new ideas (I enjoyed the Martial Arts Terrestrial and Solar tags, the CONCEPT [but not application] of combat, treating groups of enemies as a single foe, and the implementation of a Supernal ability). it still has a LOT of dead weight carried on from 1st Edition that seemed to have been added purely for the sake of appealing to the main fanboys, while keeping the casuals out of it.

                    As it stands, I suspect sales with drift without anything big or small. My GUT says its destined for a loss sooner than a gain. The 3rd Edition was explosively Exalted, but the reality is the Wyld Hunt is closing in and I suspect this 3rd Edition age will end in sorrows.

                    Originally posted by Daredevil View Post
                    What is the current moral of it's existing fan base?
                    As said above - its halved. Some people like it, but I don't hear much praise. A LOT of people found the overall system clunky (too many underwhelming charms, too much overly descriptive fluff, a somewhat complicated combat system that is great IF you can forget all other roll-and-damage systems). Its not a casual RPG system, which means its only fun for the hardcore and near impossible for the casual player to get in on - which will isolate many players.

                    Its irritating cause many of the other WhiteWolf/ Onyx systems are VERY streamlined (World of Darkness and Sion are very easy to get into). Exalted feels out of place from it.

                    Originally posted by Daredevil View Post
                    What do buyers look forward to?
                    A "lite" version. I've been working on one in private, that is quickly becoming its own game system that is "templated" onto the world of creation. Others have made games in the same idea (e.g.: Legends of the Wu-Ling and Godbound being two that spring to mind; some even running a FATE Core game in the Exalted world).

                    I am curious to read the fluff of the new locations and re-interpretations of the Deathlords and the Yozi - but I've lost passion to look into their mechanics. I know I'm not alone, but I also know there are people who don't share this view and are eager for more. Somewhat jealous of those who like the game as is, but I just can't appreciate a game that is THIS complicated.

                    Originally posted by Daredevil View Post
                    What do they not look forward to?
                    More overly descriptive Charms. The more description given, the less imagination is allowed to be used. In DnD, when a Barbarian Rages, you can choose how it looks a bit (are you a calm, silent, menacing juggernaught? A roaring animalist beast? A psychotic laughing bloodthirsty maniac?). I'm not saying DnD is a great system, but its simple and easy to get into, many of its effects are set in their description, but their descriptors are to the point and not a hard slog to read through.

                    Originally posted by Daredevil View Post
                    When is the current estimate when the current edition will end?
                    Given the Onyx path seems VEEEEERY slow in getting their releases out (white wolf was VERY swift in their products by comparion), if sales go well, I don't see 3rd Ed wrapping up for a decade.

                    Originally posted by Daredevil View Post
                    What is the current likelihood a 4th edition will occur?
                    Eh. There are complaints about the current system already, and it almost FEELS like the similar complaints of DnD 4th Ed. That said, Onyx seems confident with their current line up of developers and writers, so it won't happen for a while.

                    For me, I'd like a 3.5 exalted edition which uses all its new Fluff, but makes the game more accessable, simpler, less convoluted, and just more fun! I don't want to take a university course to understand how to play a game. I want to play.

                    Again, this is my Opinion. I don't speak for the masses.


                    Support new ideas. If you must criticize, always offer advice to the creator on how they could improve, or even suggest alternative solutions to fix a problem you can see. Dismissive comments should be equally dismissed as attempts to grab attention. Focus only on contributions that help you grow and develop, and ignore jealous efforts to stunt your creative sparks.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by zenvious View Post
                      Its still going. The Dragon Bloods are on their way. Arms of the Chose came out - though I was disappointed in it as it just gave a speil on a lot of magic items, but no solid rules on creating your own. For some, that sandbox style may be awesome. For me, its was just the creators showing off creative ideas that a Game Master could have created themselves with much simplier and streamlined effects.
                      For me, tbh, I don't buy books to tell me to homebrew things. I want solid charmlists with play-tested rules and cool ideas that inspire me.
                      I wasn't super into Arms because I'm not super into artefacts; but as a set of artefacts, I'd rather have that than rules for making your own.*

                      *People always want rules for making your own stuff; but I find rules for making your own stuff tends to either vague, bland, or abuseable. This is why I'm not that excited about Exigents.


                      Couldn't say, but I feel the fan base is halved and this will PROBABLY lean towards loss over gain. While 3rd Ed did come up with some great new ideas (I enjoyed the Martial Arts Terrestrial and Solar tags, the CONCEPT [but not application] of combat, treating groups of enemies as a single foe, and the implementation of a Supernal ability). it still has a LOT of dead weight carried on from 1st Edition that seemed to have been added purely for the sake of appealing to the main fanboys, while keeping the casuals out of it.
                      What kind of dead weight from 1st ed?
                      Tbh, most of the things I didn't like were new stuff (like the craft rules and Twilight anima banner, though I dislike the craft rules less than I originally did). I'm interested to know what stuff they kept that some people didn't like. The only thing they really kept that I don't like is the character gen system.

                      As it stands, I suspect sales with drift without anything big or small. My GUT says its destined for a loss sooner than a gain. The 3rd Edition was explosively Exalted, but the reality is the Wyld Hunt is closing in and I suspect this 3rd Edition age will end in sorrows.
                      Possibly. I think a lot depends on what the new developers produce in their first year or two. If in two years they get 3 splat books out (DBs, Lunars and Exigents I guess) and people think they're good, it'll draw old fans back in, and then have the usual word-of-mouth expansion. If they take ages to get splat books out, or they're not that good, or both, then it won't do well.


                      One thing I have noted is that in my local gaming shop, there's DnD, Shadowrun, Numinera, the new Paranoia, Fragged Empire, and some other games I hadn't heard of. And that makes people pick them up and have a look. Same at my friend's local gaming shop when I visited him. But no Exalted, because it's only PoD. Of course, a lot of people just use Drivethrurpg now, but the only time I'm likely to buy a new game to try it out, rather than because my friends are playing it, is if I see it in a shop, pick it up, read it, and like it. That's how I learned about Exalted the first time, when I picked up and read Dragonblood in a shop.

                      But I think Onyx Path just doesn't have the money to put physical copies in gaming shops.

                      (And the Exalted core book, if you see a physical copy, is so, so, so, so big.)

                      The other thing, is that the overall market for pen-and-paper rpgs isn't doing that well (except for Wizards of the Coast), because there's so much more competition than there used to be (though I guess even WotC has to compete with Paizo now). Back when Exalted 1st ed was in its heyday, there wasn't nearly as many competitors as there is now. So, it's quite possible the amount of people playing has halved, but not necessarily because people hate the game.

                      Also, of course, the lack of books is just a big problem. There's very little in the way of antagonists, and only playable type of character. It's like running DnD with half the PH classes, a DM guide, and no Monster Manual. Which gets back to how quickly they can produce more.



                      As said above - its halved. Some people like it, but I don't hear much praise. A LOT of people found the overall system clunky (too many underwhelming charms, too much overly descriptive fluff, a somewhat complicated combat system that is great IF you can forget all other roll-and-damage systems). Its not a casual RPG system, which means its only fun for the hardcore and near impossible for the casual player to get in on - which will isolate many players.

                      Its irritating cause many of the other WhiteWolf/ Onyx systems are VERY streamlined (World of Darkness and Sion are very easy to get into). Exalted feels out of place from it.
                      .
                      As I said above, if the number of players have halved (if that's true, I don't know), it might well be for other reasons. But I think you are somewhat right. We play Exalted a lot, and so obviously find it reasonably good (it's one of the few systems that supports such a wide range of non-combat characters), but I think most of the players would prefer it to be a little simpler.
                      I stopped running it because I found that, with 360xp characters (they were essence 4 by the end of 2nd ed, so we just carried on), it was too complex, people couldn't remember all their charms, and there wasn't enough support for STs in terms of antagonists. But my friend has run a game from 0xp to about 150ish now, and that seems to have gone very well. And he's taken over the game I ended by popular demand, so obviously the players didn't find it too overwhelming.
                      I have found it a relief to run a simpler game system instead though, I admit.

                      Obviously the base rules (which generally, I think are pretty good) aren't going to change, but if people don't like the Solar charmset, then Dragonblood and Lunars are a chance to fix that.

                      This has got a bit long-winded... I think, essentially what I'm saying, is the game needs more splats, with well-written charms. The future of the game just depends on that. If Dragonblood is really good and gets good reviews on rpgnet, etc, in a few months, followed by a well-reviewed Lunars book at the beginning of next year, then I think the game will bounce back.


                      "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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                      • #26
                        It seems to me that the Exalted fanbase getting smaller would happen no matter what, because the market has changed. It's like coming out with a new musician, and asking why they don't have the kind of success that they could have in the 90s.


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                        • #27
                          Yeah, I suspect so.


                          "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post

                            What kind of dead weight from 1st ed?

                            Tbh, most of the things I didn't like were new stuff (like the craft rules and Twilight anima banner, though I dislike the craft rules less than I originally did). I'm interested to know what stuff they kept that some people didn't like. The only thing they really kept that I don't like is the character gen system.
                            Before I answer, I'll again re-itterate this is just from my perspective. IMO I prefer quality over quantity; a few things that can be specialized, than a LOT of things that overlap areas.

                            For me the biggest carry-over are the abilities. In 1st Ed there were 25 abilities; with 5 assigned to each Caste. This meant, if you wanted to be good in Stealth from get go, you were encouraged to be a Night Cast. While this is still somewhat the case, 3rd Ed overlapped the favored abilities in the Solar Castes (Larceny is favored by both Night and Eclipse for example).

                            And while this is also not an issue, removing the exclusivity of certain favored skills (with exception you could pick from outside your caste 3 skills I think? in addition to your caste favored), it raised the question - what was the point of 25 skills at all?

                            This point becomes extra relevant when dealing with players in social situations (I want to talk to the Guard - do I use Linguistics, Socialize, Presence, or Bureacracy? Can I even talk to him like I'm someone else via Performance?). In that example ANY of those skills could be justified for making the roll.

                            I had proposed an idea to streamline the skills down on a thread on this forum before, but I found the responses outright dismissive - which pulled me further back from the Exalted community, and increased my subjective view Exalted is for a elite Clique of players who don't want their game system questioned (and anyone who can't handle it needs to "git gud"), which ALSO put an extra bad taste in my mouth.

                            That said, I had proposed to merge a number of skills (such as Ride and Survival - since MUCH of Survival's charms were basically 'familiar' effects - and Performance into Presence since both involved making crowds look at the person, etc). I had actually managed to do so in a way I streamlined the abilities down from 25/26 down to 16. AND even assigned them through the 5 Castes in such a way that felt thematically accurate, offered some exclusive abilities, but still kept some overlap so certain roles could cover missing Circle members as needed.

                            Its something I'll keep private on though as, again, last time I discussed it - I felt challenged and rejected from the responses I felt my creative thoughts were unwelcomed. The overall responce was "you are trying to make a different game; don't try to pretend you like Exalted" and I really don't want to go through that again. That can certainly discourage you from picking the book up at all.

                            But my point stands - why 25/26 abilities when it COULD be less to reduce those GM questions (what skill do I use to talk to a Guard?)

                            Some other points:

                            - Why do you need to spend Essence on "non-combat charms" if your combative Essence Mote Regen would allow you to get it back if you just have a quick "sparring match" with an ally? If the answer is "anima barrier" then say "by using this non-combat charm, your anima barrier increases by +1 level".

                            - Why the Great Curse? Its a stick for the GM to beat the players with, despite the fact the GM can throw a Tyrand Lizard at them on a whim if they chose?

                            - Following from the above two points, you have to keep track of Limit Break, Personal Motes, Peripheral Motes, Willpower, and Health Points. In 3rd Ed you STILL have to keep track of that PLUS Inititiave when you enter Combat, and (if you do Craft) Crafting points.
                            Thats a LOT of book-keeping! And maybe some people like that sorta thing, but I'd like to stay as far away from accounting when I'm having fun if possible.

                            - The Dice-Avalanches. For some, rolling dice is fun. For me, its waiting and bean counting. I don't like DnD's d20% system, but I will acknowledge its simple and fast in its "d20 + skill number VS assigned difficulty" compared to exalted "Xd10 -> count all 7+ results, re-roll 10's, recalculate, re-roll more d10's, recalcualte VS assigned difficulty + Xd10 -> reroll 10's, etc...". Maybe for people who play Warhammer, quantity beats Quality. But when a fight can draaag out in DnD alone with one dice roll, you can imagine why I roll my eyes when it comes to pools of dice... especially when some of my players struggle (simply due to the unfortunateness of a minor mental disorder) to get basic arthimetic right, and more things on a table makes it even more confusing for them.
                            For me, I'd love a 2d6 + number VS difficulty system - would give a nice bell curve on the 7, reduced chance of a critical failure on a 2, reduced chance of a critical success on a 12, but still be fast enought to resolve within a few seconds instead of half a minute per roll.

                            And yes I know we can use Dice Rolling Apps for similar effect. But again, its bringing a fix to a problem that I feel is needlessly complicated, that could have been something else which (again) would make it more appealing to casual and newer players.


                            Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                            Obviously the base rules (which generally, I think are pretty good) aren't going to change, but if people don't like the Solar charmset, then Dragonblood and Lunars are a chance to fix that.

                            This has got a bit long-winded... I think, essentially what I'm saying, is the game needs more splats, with well-written charms. The future of the game just depends on that. If Dragonblood is really good and gets good reviews on rpgnet, etc, in a few months, followed by a well-reviewed Lunars book at the beginning of next year, then I think the game will bounce back.
                            The base rules of 3rd Ed are a bit "eh". While the Initiative Tug of War looks good in principal, its too complicated for my casual group to accept. I DO like they reduced the "one-hit-KO" effects of 2nd Ed, but combat still feels like a chore to me.

                            I'd have prefered a combat system that did away with Health Points outright, and instead played on a 5 step tug-of-war system instead (i.e.: you are tied, you have advantage, you have SIGNIFICANT advantage, you have disadvantage, you have SIGNIFICANT disadvantage). And, when you cash in your advantage, it doesn't do "DAMAGE" persay, but rather changes the situation.

                            FATE core has a great mechanic that implemented this type of thing. Simple, thematic, effective.

                            Exalted... it still stuck on dealing Health Points of Bashing/Lethal Damage that seemed revolutionary when it was early days compared to DnD, but now its just a different Health Point System. And if anything its MORE complicated than other systems. Agreeably the initiative system does mean you don't take a one-hit-KO on the first round, but when you drop your decisive blow, its usually what ends the fight from what happened in the few games I ran. And for my players it was boring.

                            I agree that MAYBE the DB's and Lunars could bring life back into the game (I'm lookin at the Lunars in particular to follow on from my 25/26 skills to ask "were 9 attributes also needed? why not them Perks instead of even MORE dots of book-keeping). I'll be waiting to buy them when/if cheap cause I felt bitten by Arms of the Chosen and don't want to support the game system in its current form at full value (and thats comming from a Kickstarter Supporter too).

                            Long winded, appologies on rant, but felt only way to explain myself was be detailed as possible.


                            Support new ideas. If you must criticize, always offer advice to the creator on how they could improve, or even suggest alternative solutions to fix a problem you can see. Dismissive comments should be equally dismissed as attempts to grab attention. Focus only on contributions that help you grow and develop, and ignore jealous efforts to stunt your creative sparks.

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                            • #29
                              Well that sounds like you in principle just want a less complicated system for casual players, which is probably pretty easily homebrewed. I mean just implement that tug of war system for your group. It's allways easier to mke a system less complex than it is to make it more so. Therefor I don't see the lack of simplification as a problem personally. Given I also like more complicated systems.

                              As to the skills/attributes question... maybe take a look at VtM 5th edition, it's my understanding that they heavily simplified the system.

                              On 3e in general I can say that I personally don't like all the changes it brought, systematically and fluff wise and still prefer 2.5 though I do steal lots of interesting stuff 3e brought and adapt it. So overall I am quite pleased with 3e. It's not my ideal system, but it brings lots of good new ideas to the table, enabling me to cherrypick the stuff I like and adapt it to my own games.


                              My Mage 2e Homebrew

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                              • #30
                                There's an awful lot of gold in this thread. I'll be rereading through a bunch of the posts here because I suspect that my players and I would benefit from the ideas and observations.

                                I think it's unlikely that any tabletop game edition is going to make the same kind of big splash and audience-grab that maybe (maybe!) they once did. There's a lot of saturation in the market, so to stand out, a game needs to shine in a good niche. This is not unlike television and movies - there's literally more than I can watch, if I watched like a full-time job, in the genres and styles I would have eagerly awaited a decade or two ago.

                                In games terms, that means for me that I've got basically 8 to 10 hours in a good week, to do some storytelling, toss some dice, get some laughs and cheers. I might have a similar amount of time over a week to do my writing and prep - a task which is inefficient because I catch a few minutes to write here and there in between meetings and calls and work crises, or in between taking my pupper out to play, or dealing with dinner and housework. I spend a relatively big chunk of those adhoc minutes reviewing and picking back up before producing anything new. (Still more fun than calls with software vendors, so yeah)

                                Within those two blocks of time, play and prep, I need to have a good grasp of what a game system & world do, and how they mechanically do them. Some of the wisest words I ever picked up were from a photography pro's website, to the effect that "A good tool gets out of your way and lets you do your work" - which applies to cameras and game systems in addition to every other sort of thing we use.


                                So, I'm personally pretty excited for Exalted 3rd to be coming up in my group's game rotation. It isn't perfect, and I've been working on the rules and setting hacks to do with it what I want to do. But, Exalted does do some things very well that I like being built into a game. It has a bidding system in the form of the Initiative, Decisive, Gambits part of combat. It has a much improved goals/motivations/virtues/personality system in the form of Intimacies.

                                It has some things that I didn't want to see.... nonstandard rounding, tricky dice conditions, on-the-fly counters for resets.... but these can be managed I think. Somebody certainly digs them, so that's fine.


                                I am looking forward to seeing more kickstarts and splats, though that is probably a long way off. I think that there might be some benefit in doing it that way, in that you'd continue to get renewed interest every year or two when a major new splat comes along. Also, I think that good quality of writing and rules keeps Ex3 in a niche of decidedly advanced gaming with a big, good quality IP.

                                I'd also be very excited to see a real player's guide and a real storyteller's guide. Neither of which would have more charms or errata or even be splat-specific. Rather they'd have discussions on why things are how they are. Why is Initiative a combat resource? Why do we do Intimacies? How do I build a character to fit a role or break out of the limits of a role? How do I build stories, encounters, and the like, that work in this setting? Tell me why, tell me what the idea is, so I can start to see the big picture.


                                I would not like to see an uncontrolled splat-salad - Exalted has so much in it that it's easy to let themes and characters and settings run amok. Keep tossing in discordant elements and you wind up with Rifts. Rifts is a hoot to play for a session or two, but after that the fun wears off and it devolves into absurdity and a sort of broad shallowness.


                                I doubt we'll get a 4th Ed within a foreseeable time frame. We may well get some 3.1 updates and alternate rules. Heck, I'm all but writing my own.




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