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What if all the Solars were released before the disappearance of the Empress?

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  • What if all the Solars were released before the disappearance of the Empress?

    Idle thought here, what would happen if the Jade Prison was destroyed before the Empress disappeared? Edit: I'm thinking... say 300 years before her official disappearance. Edit again: I'm leaving edition aside - people can answer to whichever they find appropriate, I think the answers will by and large be similar anyway.

    Additionally, it wasn't the Deathlords or Yozi's, so all the shards are Solars.
    Last edited by Tytalus; 03-01-2018, 08:30 PM.

  • #2
    Hmmmmm... I know this isn't really what you're asking, but was the Jade Prison destroyed before the Empress disappeared anyway?
    I mean, they happened at around the same time. Does the book say which happened first?


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    • #3
      The Solars still present a crisis to the Realm, but it's one that they can present a more unified response to.

      ​I'm seeing legions moving throughout the Threshold, in constant battle with the endeavours of Solars.


      I have approximate knowledge of many things.
      Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
        The Solars still present a crisis to the Realm, but it's one that they can present a more unified response to.

        ​I'm seeing legions moving throughout the Threshold, in constant battle with the endeavours of Solars.

        This

        The wyld hunts will be well funded, Peleps Deled will not be in charge of the wyld hunt, and all Solars and Lunars will have to watch their backs constantly - or seek refuge in the bordermarshes where the Sids can't track them.

        Remember - the gold faction of the sids basically only rose up due to the resurgence of the solars - so all the sids would be united under Ketchup Karjack


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        • #5
          But wouldn't the resurgence of the Solars embolden the Gold Faction?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by webkilla View Post
            Lunars will have to watch their backs constantly
            That's nothing new for the Lunars.

            ​A stronger Realm response would change the manner of Solar adventures, but Solars are still strong, and it's a sudden increase beyond what the Realm has provisioned to deal with; hardly enough to say that all Solars are on the run.

            Originally posted by webkilla
            the gold faction of the sids basically only rose up due to the resurgence of the solars - so all the sids would be united under Ketchup Karjack
            Because the Solars haven't resurged?


            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
            Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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            • #7
              Read first post again sorry.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by webkilla View Post


                This

                The wyld hunts will be well funded, Peleps Deled will not be in charge of the wyld hunt, and all Solars and Lunars will have to watch their backs constantly - or seek refuge in the bordermarshes where the Sids can't track them.

                Remember - the gold faction of the sids basically only rose up due to the resurgence of the solars - so all the sids would be united under Ketchup Karjack
                He isn't now. He's just the head of a chapter house. Cathak Setod runs the overall show in the Office of Harmony.

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                • #9
                  Depends. The appearance of the Solars earlier on in the Realm's dynastic culture, before the political culture had reached its pitch of intraelite competition, might have had a unifying effect; the Empress simply couldn't afford internal divide-and-rule competition to keep her Throne safe, and would have to settle on some form of defined mechanism to manage succession and mitigate feuding and competition, and the Houses would have to more or less accept it.

                  If you avoid the incipient Civil War, you also tend to retain the (at least 1e) Realm-under-the-Empress's policies of relatively light extraction from satrapies and tributaries to prevent rebellion and maintain a sustainable revenue stream, and you avoid the heavy intra-House competition that is driving higher levels of extraction that are unsustainable, risk major rebellion and have led to open rebellion and declaration of independence among satrapies and tributaries in RY768. (At the same time as the Houses withdraw their troops in preparation for civil war conflict, further encouraging rebellion).

                  (Another effect would be that, if we assume the Realm has been losing a stock of First Age magic since the founding of the Realm, they'd likely have a stronger artefact base to use.)

                  On the contrary though, we have to consider what competitive multiple fronts tend to do to empires. There's some recent work in historical economics that posits that the Han Empire was reunified when the Roman wasn't because, though the Han Empire faced threats at least as dire as the Romans, they all tended to come from one direction, the northern steppes, while the Romans faced threats in almost every province to some degree.

                  This tended to encourage the Chinese to maintain unity, to build a strong defensive line in one place, to save the entire North Chinese plain, and then the commanders of the forces here would dominate the rest of the country. While in the Roman case, because the threats were so disparate and from so many directions, and geography allowed lots of provinces to hold their own "strong lines" at different locations, the Empire tended to be broken up into regions, which in time evolved towards region states.

                  Assuming all this, the Blessed Isle has something more of the Roman case about it, because surrounded by an entire Threshold of potential threats. So it might be that the Realm as it is (centered on the Isle, with significant colonial possessions across the world and centered in the near Threshold) tends to simply be unsustainable in the face of a Threshold that's not vastly militarily weaker as a whole, and the Realm has to either retreat to regional states of just the Isle itself.

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                  • #10
                    I am wondering about an additional question in extendtion to the first.

                    Given a more unified and effective respons from the Realm. Would that provide the sids enough room and time to find Another way to lock solars up? Like finding the hosts of solar exaltation and keep them in controlled and subdued artficial suspension?

                    Like drugs, otherwordly prisons or being dreameaten by the fae. Just Some examples

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                    • #11
                      Does the Empress still vanish for reasons unknown? Cause part of the problem the Realm has is that her Redness being gone without a proper chain of succession leading to house infighting and a lack of anyone to rein in the more dangerously destructive aspects of inter house conflicts. Measures taken due to a massive solar resurgence would probably lessen the damage in points, but I still see the battle of futile blood including a few other houses taking the opportunity to cripple Tepet even if they don't take the same extent that happened in the normal setting.

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                      • #12
                        Hmm, if it's that far back, the makeup of the Great Houses is going to be quite a bit different.


                        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                        Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by webkilla View Post
                          Remember - the gold faction of the sids basically only rose up due to the resurgence of the solars - so all the sids would be united under Ketchup Karjack
                          Is this a 3E change? Because the Sidereals have had several factions debating the Solar issue since the Usurpation. Several Sidereals that supported the Solars were killed as well, including Ayesha Ura's (Gold Faction leader) previous incarnation. There has never been a unified faction under Kejack... unless this is a 3E retcon I missed!?

                          As for the OP's question, the Wyld Hunt would be far better staffed and funded. But it would still be extremely difficult for them to deal with the resurgence. The Empire is at war with the Lunar's in the Caul, they've only ever needed to track down 2-3 Solar's a decade in the past, and they've continuously failed to conquer the River Provinces. A sudden resurgence of 300 Solars would put a lot of pressure on the Empire. Solar's themselves would definitely have a greater threat against them, but the Shogunate is gone. The number of Dragonbloods is a fraction of what it was during the Usurpation. Honestly, between the Solars and Lunars (who reincarnate) and the Dragonbloods (requiring hereditary genetics), the Empire could lose on simple attrition.
                          Last edited by TalosX; 03-01-2018, 08:08 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Great thoughts everyone! Just in case anyone missed my edits to the original post:

                            (1) I'm thinking... say 300 years before her official disappearance.

                            (2) I'm leaving edition aside - people can answer to whichever they find appropriate, I think the answers will by and large be similar anyway.

                            I think the idea of greater pressure on the empire would be significant. As well, the solars would not necessarily be united either. Borked 2E population dynamics aside, I think DB's would be under considerably more pressure over time to have much larger families in order to make up for the attrition and losses to Solars in the Threshold.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TalosX View Post
                              unless this is a 3E retcon I missed!?
                              ​I think retcon isn't the right term to use, since it's an Edition starting from the beginning; it's not like when Masters of Jade retroactively had it that Liminals had always been there.

                              ​Anyway, to me, the description of Sidereals in the core book suggested that dividing around an active question about the place of Solars in Creation's future was only something that came up when there were actual Solars around.


                              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                              Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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