Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Fading Sun Style, a Martial Art for deceptive Solars.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Fading Sun Style, a Martial Art for deceptive Solars.

    I wrote this up a while ago, and am now going back and updating it with a better feel for the system. I'm posting it here to get opinions and ideas, and anyone who wants to use it can feel free to do so.

    [My thoughts will be placed in boxes like this.]
    {Edits based on responses will be explained here.}



    Fading Sun Style
    Requires Manipulation 3+
    Crafted by a first age Night Caste who was tired of constantly having to back up her Twilight lover, Fading Sun Style is a martial art designed for manipulation and deception, lies and mistruths. It emulates the setting sun in its nature and progression, beginning as the sun dips and ending as the world is covered in darkness. Manipulating the minds and perceptions of her foes, the heart of this style is simple. Convince your foe you intend to move left, and when they cannot see you, move right. Much of this style was conceived only for Solars, though any exalt could potentially learn it. Most charms carry with them whispers of shadow and fading light, glimmers of twilight and stars.

    Fading Sun Style uses thrown weapons, generally kunai or shuriken.

    [I designed this for Solars, with the idea that it was never designed for any other Exalt to use it. But should someone have a teacher, I'm sure they could use it fairly well.]

    {I reduced the Manipulation requirement to 3 on Flinty's suggestion. I was unsure on it being 4 in the first place, and 3 seems a bit more fair considering the scaling of Exalted.}

    Fading Sun's Radiance
    Cost: 4m; Mins:Martial Arts 1, Essence 1
    Type: Reflexive
    Duration: Instant
    Keywords: Withering-Only
    Prerequisite Charms: None

    The Fading Sun blinds those who look upon it as surely as it were high noon. The Solar's attacks blind her enemies with subtle light, hiding her true location. Upon successfully landing a Martial Arts attack, she may partially blind an opponent, allowing her to immediately make a (Manipulation+Martial Arts) based stealth attempt. If successful, the solar is not actually hidden, but her opponent has difficulty tracking where she is as if she were actually hidden.

    [This is the opening trick, and sorta pushes the idea of how this martial art is for combat. The fact that using this charm and stepping into the blindspot immediately will cause an anima flare is intentional, helping push the "Sun is only beginning to set. This charm is the point where the sun has approached the horizon, but not slipped beneath it yet, getting in your eyes and leaving spots.]

    Deceptive Long Shadow
    Cost: 6m; Mins: Martial Arts 2, Essence 1
    Type: Supplemental
    Duration: Instant
    Keywords: Mute
    Prerequisite Charms:None

    The Fading Sun makes all shadows long, and it is in these shadows the martial artist hides. The Solar may use Deceptive Long Shadow to make use of the shadows around her, allowing a single attack to appear to come from any direction. This functions as a stealth attack which does not break stealth, but only if the Solar is in a form of stealth granted by this style. Observers may make a (Perception+Awareness) roll with a difficulty of the Solar's (Essence+Manipulation) to see through her deception. The real Solar must be visible to her opponent to use this charm.

    [This charm is more useful with thrown attacks, but still works for unarmed attacks. If used with the next charm, it can allow the Solar to attack through a shadow clone without actually being in melee range. This is the beginning of the "appear to step left, then step right" aspect of the style. This charm is the point where the setting sun has stretched the shadows, but they are still clearly there, crawling across the landscape.]

    Blend With Fading Light
    Cost:10m, 1wp;Mins: Martial Arts 3, Essence 1
    Type: Simple
    Duration:One Scene
    Keywords: Mute, Perilous, Psyche
    Prerequisite Charms: Fading Sun's Radiance, Deceptive Long Shadow

    The Fading Sun hides the truth of the world as well as the night, if not more so. Distorting her foes perceptions as well as the shadows around her, the Solar creates illusions of herself. Stepping from the shadows, these illusions have no physical substance, but can be the focal point for Deceptive Long Shadow so long as they make the proper motions. The Solar creates half of her Essence+Manipulation rounded down shadow clones. NOTE: As the Solar ignites her Anima, her clones do not, revealing her. Night Castes may ignore this.

    [The key idea of the Martial Art, I wanted something that created illusions of the Solar. As the clones cannot actually make attacks, I went for an average of 2-3 clones for a low Essence Solar. This charm is the point where the sun has dipped below the horizon, not completely, but partially. The shadows are now effectively everywhere, darkness is here but light is not gone.]

    Fading Sun Mirage Form
    Cost:10m (1wp) (Xi); Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 1
    Type: Simple
    Duration: One Scene
    Keywords: Mute, Form
    Prerequisite Charms: Blend With Fading Light

    The Fading Sun eventually sets, leaving only a glimmer of brilliance. Emulating this last beam of light, the Solar takes the form of a mirage. Her Anima becomes twisting shadow stretching long from her body, curling around scenery and people. She may pay 1wp in this form to shift places with a single shadow as she is attacked, allowing it to be destroyed in her place. She must activate this charm before the attack is rolled. She may also use Initiative in the place of motes for Deceptive Long Shadow, so long as she expends at least a single mote as well.
    Special activation rules: Whenever the Solar successfully fools an opponent into attacking a shadow, she may reflexively activate this form. Reflexively activating this form while in stealth gives her 1 initiative for each enemy unaware of her true location.

    [The form charm, the death of me. I knew exactly what I wanted this charm to do, the ability to switch places with a shadow upon being attacked, letting it be destroyed. The combined cost of this and Blend With Fading Light is 20 motes, 1 willpower, + 1 willpower to change places. I thought this was a fair price for the power to effectively No Sell any attack. The effect this charm has on the Solar anima is meant to be more than just fluff, being a tool for aiding her deceptions. The modification to Deceptive Long Shadow is also meant to encourage use of Blend With Fading Light. This charm represents the moment the sun finally sinks out of sight, and darkness truly begins to descend upon Creation.]

    Feather Weight Darkness
    Cost: 8m; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 2
    Type: Simple
    Duration: One Scene
    Keywords: Mute, Perilous, Psyche
    Prerequisite Charms: Fading Sun Mirage Form

    The Fading Sun's warmth lingers in the air, and the Solar draws upon this warmth to coalesce her Anima into an illusion of form and weight in her shadow clones, allowing them to touch and be touched, though not giving them to strength to move matter. This allows them to perform physical seductions, as well as sexual acts. Those affected by the shadows' touch can roll (Perception+Integrity) to dispel this illusion, though some may not want to.

    [This charm is primarily meant to help with deception, allowing the solar to gently touch a target. But more than that, it makes her illusions just a little bit more real, making it harder to tell if the Solar in front of you is the real thing or just a shadow. This charm represents the warmth of the sun fading, as the world begins to chill.]


    Shadow of Damocles
    Cost: 10m, 1wp;Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 3
    Type: Simple
    Duration: Indefinite
    Keywords: Perilous, Psyche
    Prerequisite Charms:Fading Sun Mirage Form

    The Fading Sun may slip below the Horizon, but it still remains, eternal. Emulating this in her creations, the Solar gains the power to extend the life of her shadow clones indefinitely. Using Shadow of Damocles at any point where Blend With Fading Light is active, the Solar keeps up to half her Essence rounded up shadows active for as long as she wishes. This causes her Anima to flare to Iconic. This effect remains active through periods of unconsciousness, though it will deactivate if the Solar enters Initiative Crash.

    [This was one of the other ideas I had from the start, I wanted the Solar to be able to keep at least a couple of clones up at all times. When she casts this, her anima will flare, but after it fades the clones an the Solar are effectively indistinguishable. This charm's place in the Fading Sun thematic is pretty clear, being a tie to the Sun always remaining, even if it can't be seen.]


    Vespertine Echo
    Cost: 3m or 4m; Mins:Martial Arts 5, Essence 4
    Type: Reflexive
    Duration: Instant
    Keywords: Mute, Psyche
    Prerequisite Charms:Feather Weight Darkness

    As The Fading Sun's light finally passes, the last trickles of it flicker in the dark. The Solar's voice carries softly along these lights, being heard from wherever she wishes. So long as the Solar is aware of a person within medium range, she may speak as if next to them, or from any direction. This can be used to speak from shadows created by Blend With Fading Light, as well as to perform certain Influence Rolls. Using this with Deceptive Long Shadow allows the Solar to flurry the social infuence and the attack, but increases the cost by 1 mote.

    [THIS charm is actually one of my favorites. The name is just so perfect. I wanted another trick that didn't depend on the shadows clones but could be used with them. This charm represents the last of the sun's light sinking out of sight, and those last strands of sunset.]

    {I changed the combo effect on Flinty's suggestion, and I quite like the result. Adds in a bit more of attack-y-ness to the style.}

    Shadow Over Flame
    Cost: 12m, 1-3a, 1w; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 5
    Type: Simple
    Duration: Instant
    Keywords: Decisive-Only, Perilous
    Prerequisite Charms:Shadow Of Damocles

    The Fading Sun reveals the darkness behind it, and the Solar follows suit. She cloaks her Anima in darkness, folding it into multiple (Manipulation+Martial Arts) attacks. For each Anima Level expended, the Solar gains an extra attack, to be executed by each of her Shadows from Blend With Fading Light. For each anima level expended, the Solar gains a point of initiative.The Solar must split her initiative between these attacks, and may do so however she wishes. Each attack may be directed against a different target. These attacks are affected by any Charms used for the first attack.

    [The final charm, and the third attack. It is awesome, and excessive, but it IS an Essence 5 charm which requires clones up. From the Miracles of the Solar Exalted book, I gleaned that the 'charm copying attack' is one of the most powerful effects that a Solar can get, and I wanted something of that strength. I should note, these ARE martial arts attacks, and thus cannot be improved with thrown charms. It doesn't consume the shadow clones, and thus leaves the Solar in the comfy position of having her clones, potentially dead enemies, and no anima to reveal her! This charm represents the darkness finally covering creation completely, the cold night taking over. It consumes her anima and destroys her enemies.]
    {I clarified the effect of the charm somewhat, as I had not even thought of the idea that multiple decisive attacks of this level could use the same initiative pool.}
    Last edited by Aquatica; 03-12-2018, 10:07 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Aquatica View Post
    [SIZE=12px]

    Fading Sun Style
    Requires Manipulation 4+
    Crafted by a first age Night Caste who was tired of constantly having to back up her Twilight lover, Fading Sun Style is a martial art designed for manipulation and deception, lies and mistruths. It emulates the setting sun in its nature and progression, beginning as the sun dips and ending as the world is covered in darkness. Manipulating the minds and perceptions of her foes, the heart of this style is simple. Convince your foe you intend to move left, and when they cannot see you, move right. Much of this style was conceived only for Solars, though any exalt could potentially learn it. Most charms carry with them whispers of shadow and fading light, glimmers of twilight and stars.

    Fading Sun Style uses thrown weapons, generally kunai or shuriken.

    [I designed this for Solars, with the idea that it was never designed for any other Exalt to use it. But should someone have a teacher, I'm sure they could use it fairly well.
    Manipulation 4+ seems rather harsh, I'd personally lower it to 3+. Also what about armor? Given the Styles themes and charms I'd suggest no armor or light armor at most.

    Fading Sun's Radiance
    Cost: 4m (1m); Mins:Martial Arts 1, Essence 1
    Type: Reflexive
    Duration: Instant
    Keywords: Withering-Only
    Prerequisite Charms: None

    The Fading Sun blinds those who look upon it as surely as it were high noon. The Solar's attacks blind her enemies with subtle light, hiding her true location. Upon successfully landing a Martial Arts attack, she may roll (Manipulation+Martial Arts) to partially blind her opponent. She may then reflexively spend 1m to step into their blind spot whenever her foe moves.

    [This is the opening trick, and sorta pushes the idea of how this martial art is for combat. The fact that using this charm and stepping into the blindspot immediately will cause an anima flare is intentional, helping push the "Sun is only beginning to set. This charm is the point where the sun has approached the horizon, but not slipped beneath it yet, getting in your eyes and leaving spots.]
    What is the difficulty of the roll? Or if it is one, is it a resisted roll, perhaps against the opponents (wits+awareness) in order for them to look away from the light and avoid being blinded? If neither of these are true I don't think you need to bother with a roll at all, but personally I'd make it a resisted roll, especially given that the charm is reflexive and you thus don't risk wasting your motes on an attack that does end up not hitting the opponent.

    What is the mechanic of creating the blind spot and of stepping into it? Establishing stealth? In this case what this charm enables is to establish stealth rolling (Manipulation+Martial Arts) instead of dex stealth? That's fine, but the roll should happen each time you attempt to do so. Personally I'd suggest removing the 1m option of stepping into the blindspot whenever for the rest of the fight and instead make it so that it costs 4m and allows you upon successfully hitting a target to reflexivly attempt to reestablish stealth. I'd probably also make it supplemental, given the power of that effect (compare with Hidden Snake Recoil, which while clearly stronger also has far more stringent criteria for working. This is a really really strong effect.)
    Alternativly it could give the opponent a penalty for detecting you for the rest of the combat, something like -2 dice sounds appropriate (or -1 dice and the penalty being stackable to a total or (3 or Essence), whichever is higher.

    Deceptive Long Shadow
    Cost: 7m; Mins: Martial Arts 2, Essence 1
    Type: Supplemental
    Duration: Instant
    Keywords: Mute
    Prerequisite Charms:None

    The Fading Sun makes all shadows long, and it is in these shadows the martial artist hides. The Solar may use Deceptive Long Shadow to make use of the shadows around her, allowing a single attack to appear to come from any direction. This move supplements a normal Martial Arts attack. Observers may (Perception+Awareness) roll with a difficulty of the Solar's (Essence+Manipulation) to see through her deception. The real Solar must be visible to her opponent to use this charm.

    [This charm is more useful with thrown attacks, but still works for unarmed attacks. If used with the next charm, it can allow the Solar to attack through a shadow clone without actually being in melee range. This is the beginning of the "appear to step left, then step right" aspect of the style. This charm is the point where the setting sun has stretched the shadows, but they are still clearly there, crawling across the landscape.]
    Again what are the mechanics of this charm? The way I interpret it it allows the character to make a thrown attack from Stealth without loosing Stealth. That's a cool effect and I think the cost could be appropriate, though I'm really not an expert when it comes to 3e, so I'd get other opinions on that. That said the difficulty should probably be the Martial Artists Martial Arts rating or otherwise just her Manipulation. Adding Essence to the difficulty seems to much for me.

    Blend With Fading Light
    Cost:10m, 1wp;Mins: Martial Arts 3, Essence 1
    Type: Simple
    Duration:One Scene
    Keywords: Mute, Perilous, Psyche
    Prerequisite Charms: Fading Sun's Radiance, Deceptive Long Shadow

    The Fading Sun hides the truth of the world as well as the night, if not more so. Distorting her foes perceptions as well as the shadows around her, the Solar creates illusions of herself. Stepping from the shadows, these illusions have no physical substance, but can be the focal point for Deceptive Long Shadow so long as they make the proper motions. The Solar creates half of her Essence+Manipulation rounded down shadow clones. NOTE: As the Solar ignites her Anima, her clones do not, revealing her. Night Castes may ignore this.

    [The key idea of the Martial Art, I wanted something that created illusions of the Solar. As the clones cannot actually make attacks, I went for an average of 2-3 clones for a low Essence Solar. This charm is the point where the sun has dipped below the horizon, not completely, but partially. The shadows are now effectively everywhere, darkness is here but light is not gone.]
    Uh. Personally I'd rework this charm completly and put it behind the form charm, but more on that in a bit. If you're hellbent on keeping it where it is I suggest basing the number of Clones off of the Martial Arts rating and not Manipulation. Martial Arts charms are afterall ability based. Also what do you mean Night Castes may ignore this? Do you refer to their anima power or is this supposed to mean their clones develop an anima of their own to keep up? I'd refrain from the latter, as a Style probably shouldn't have a Mastery effect just for Night castes.

    Fading Sun Mirage Form
    Cost:10m (1wp) (Xi); Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 1
    Type: Simple
    Duration: One Scene
    Keywords: Mute, Form
    Prerequisite Charms: Blend With Fading Light

    The Fading Sun eventually sets, leaving only a glimmer of brilliance. Emulating this last beam of light, the Solar takes the form of a mirage. Her Anima becomes twisting shadow stretching long from her body, curling around scenery and people. She may pay 1wp in this form to shift places with a single shadow as she is attacked, allowing it to be destroyed in her place. She must activate this charm before the attack is rolled. She may also use Initiative in the place of motes for Deceptive Long Shadow, so long as she expends at least a single mote as well.
    Special activation rules: Whenever the Solar successfully fools an opponent into attacking a shadow, she may reflexively activate this form. Reflexively activating this form while in stealth gives her 1 initiative for each enemy unaware of her true location.

    [The form charm, the death of me. I knew exactly what I wanted this charm to do, the ability to switch places with a shadow upon being attacked, letting it be destroyed. The combined cost of this and Blend With Fading Light is 20 motes, 1 willpower, + 1 willpower to change places. I thought this was a fair price for the power to effectively No Sell any attack. The effect this charm has on the Solar anima is meant to be more than just fluff, being a tool for aiding her deceptions. The modification to Deceptive Long Shadow is also meant to encourage use of Blend With Fading Light. This charm represents the moment the sun finally sinks out of sight, and darkness truly begins to descend upon Creation.]
    This is sort of a tough one. I see what you want to do here and I have two problems with it. First off I think the costs are off. Yes you technically pay 20m and a bunch of wp, but you also get a whole NUMBER of more or less perfect defenses. Effects like this allready exist in the form of False Image Feint (7m, 1wp, requirtes your opponent to have a total of 6 1s and 2s on their attack roll, you to roll at least a 10 AND is a resisted roll...) and Shadow-Body Dissolution (10m, reduces the raw damage of a decisive attack by (essence + stealth). You basically get a bunch of Seven Shadow Evasions, all for the cost of 1 wp once you set it up. It's imo too much and too strong. Also, and this is my second problem, this feels off for a form charm. Form charms should mostly be passive boni and not require a secondary cost for another mid combat acivation.

    So here is my suggestion: Change the effects of the formcharm to: Allows the character to establish and maintain stealth by rolling (Manipulation + Martial Arts) instead of (Dexterity + Stealth) as long as the opponent is aware of the Solars presence in the vincinity in general (since you seem to want to avoid Stealth and make use of Manipulation in this MA this makes sense to me.). Additionally increase the characters Evasion by 1 as his form blurs and multiple shadows spring to life around him, taking on a rough likeness to his image.

    Thus you get the Shadow clones as part of your form charm, the exact number of shadows I think is rather arbitrary. The reflexive activation should be achieved by successfully establishing stealth while rolled into combat.

    Blend With The Fading Light meanwhile gets moved behind the form charm and does the whole "Exchange myself for a Shadow" shtick. I don't have time to come up with a balanced system for it atm, but you should probably take a look at Flase Image Feint from Stealth, Shadow-Body Dissolution from Ebon Shadow Style and Seven Shadow Evasion from Dodge to get an idea of effects like this could be handled in a blanced fashion. Especially the former two would be good, adding another perfect defense may threaten balance.

    Feather Weight Darkness
    Cost: 8m; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 2
    Type: Simple
    Duration: One Scene
    Keywords: Mute, Perilous, Psyche
    Prerequisite Charms: Fading Sun Mirage Form

    The Fading Sun's warmth lingers in the air, and the Solar draws upon this warmth to coalesce her Anima into an illusion of form and weight in her shadow clones, allowing them to touch and be touched, though not giving them to strength to move matter. This allows them to perform physical seductions, as well as sexual acts. Those affected by the shadows' touch can roll (Perception+Integrity) to dispel this illusion, though some may not want to.

    [This charm is primarily meant to help with deception, allowing the solar to gently touch a target. But more than that, it makes her illusions just a little bit more real, making it harder to tell if the Solar in front of you is the real thing or just a shadow. This charm represents the warmth of the sun fading, as the world begins to chill.]
    Well.... I'm not sure what this stuff does. It seem to be designed in order to allow social stunts with the Shadow clones especially outside of combat... but I'd allow that without a charm. This doesn't have any (mechanical) effect whatsoever as it stands. Personally I'd just remove the charm, otherwise you could have them cause some kind of penalty? Or maybe allow the char to perform a grapple gambit out from short range? (though in that case the grapple should only be allowed to perform a hold action)

    Shadow of Damocles
    Cost: 10m, 1wp;Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 3
    Type: Simple
    Duration: Indefinite
    Keywords: Perilous, Psyche
    Prerequisite Charms:Fading Sun Mirage Form

    The Fading Sun may slip below the Horizon, but it still remains, eternal. Emulating this in her creations, the Solar gains the power to extend the life of her shadow clones indefinitely. Using Shadow of Damocles at any point where Blend With Fading Light is active, the Solar keeps up to half her Essence rounded up shadows active for as long as she wishes. This causes her Anima to flare to Iconic. This effect remains active through periods of unconsciousness, though it will deactivate if the Solar enters Initiative Crash.

    [This was one of the other ideas I had from the start, I wanted the Solar to be able to keep at least a couple of clones up at all times. When she casts this, her anima will flare, but after it fades the clones an the Solar are effectively indistinguishable. This charm's place in the Fading Sun thematic is pretty clear, being a tie to the Sun always remaining, even if it can't be seen.]
    If you accept my suggestion regarding the form charm this charm can be removed or replaced with something else entirely. Otherwise I'd suggest making it a permanent type charm that reads that it permanently improves the shadow clone creating charm, allowing to increase its duration to indefinite by paying 10m, 1wp.... personally I'd lower the cost too since all of these motes will be committed. I also see no reason for the anima flare personally.

    Vespertine Echo
    Cost: 3m or 4m; Mins:Martial Arts 5, Essence 4
    Type: Reflexive
    Duration: Instant
    Keywords: Mute, Psyche
    Prerequisite Charms:Feather Weight Darkness

    As The Fading Sun's light finally passes, the last trickles of it flicker in the dark. The Solar's voice carries softly along these lights, being heard from wherever she wishes. So long as the Solar is aware of a person within short range, she may speak as if next to them, or from any direction. This can be used to speak from shadows created by Blend With Fading Light, as well as to perform certain Influence Rolls. Using Vespertine Echo with Blend With Fading Light extends this charm's range to extreme while increasing the price by 1 mote.

    [THIS charm is actually one of my favorites. The name is just so perfect. I wanted another trick that didn't depend on the shadows clones but could be used with them. This charm represents the last of the sun's light sinking out of sight, and those last strands of sunset.]
    Cool charm, only thing I'd change is the range of it. I'd remove the Blend With Fading Light refrence and instead allow it to combo it with deceptive long shadows, allowing whispers to be carried with the projectile you shoot from stealth (maybe this should cause the social attack and the physical attack to take flurry penalties though). The voices carrying out to extreme range seems extreme. Most I'd do is medium range or carried by a projectile. Also there really is no need for this to be Essence 4, I'd make it Essence 1 or 2 at most.

    Shadow Over Flame
    Cost: 12m, 1-3a, 1w; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 5
    Type: Simple
    Duration: Instant
    Keywords: Decisive-Only, Perilous
    Prerequisite Charms:Shadow Of Damocles

    The Fading Sun reveals the darkness behind it, and the Solar follows suit. She cloaks her Anima in darkness, folding it into multiple (Manipulation+Martial Arts) attacks. For each Anima Level expended, the Solar gains an extra attack, to be executed by each of her Shadows from Blend With Fading Light. These attacks are affected by any Charms used for the first attack. If used as part of a Deceptive Long Shadow attack, it gains +1 Damage per Anima level expended.

    [The final charm, and the third attack. It is awesome, and excessive, but it IS an Essence 5 charm which requires clones up. From the Miracles of the Solar Exalted book, I gleaned that the 'charm copying attack' is one of the most powerful effects that a Solar can get, and I wanted something of that strength. I should note, these ARE martial arts attacks, and thus cannot be improved with thrown charms. It doesn't consume the shadow clones, and thus leaves the Solar in the comfy position of having her clones, potentially dead enemies, and no anima to reveal her! This charm represents the darkness finally covering creation completely, the cold night taking over. It consumes her anima and destroys her enemies.]
    Ho boy. Well. I guess its supposed to be Essence 5 (is MA even supposed to go that high? I guess it has been said the Dragon Styles are supposed to), but this still seems far too much. You make a whole bunch of attacks, that's fine, but you NEED to fit in tha the initative you posess is split between these attacks in all fashion. They won't all be at full initiative, that would be mad. Carrying over charms is ridiculously strong, but I guess that is fine, maybe, for its cost and requirements. But the Initative has to be split between attacks as its with other multiple attack charms. I'd also personally kill the +1 Damage per Anima expended, that's too much given that you could look at a total of +12 decisive damage very easily.

    Generally I think the Mastery and Terrestrial Keywords should probably be used for some of the charms here, though seeing as you didn't intend it for non solars I see why you didn't do so yet.


    My Mage 2e Homebrew

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Flinty View Post
      LOTS!
      Goodness! I appreciate the full review, and am really happy with a lot of your suggestions! I like what you're saying about the form charm and Blend With Fading Light, though I feel that the number of clones should be a definite number, myself. The only other issue with switching their places is thematic, but I should be able to work around that. Perhaps I move Vespertine Echo to earlier in the tree, based on your suggestion on it's essence level.

      I like the mechanical suggestion of being using it to establish stealth, and reading everything you've written has led me to agree that it needs more of a mechanical description. However, one of the thematics is that this style isn't meant to rely on actual stealth. I imagine the solar talking, and being visible while she's manipulating with motion and words. Perhaps a combination of both of your suggested effects? A -1 penalty to detecting the Solar, which is applied to finding the real Solar as well, + a chance to establish stealth at a penalty?

      (An aside, since I'm mostly responding in order, what do you think of making the shadow clones allow the solar to be 'stealthed' without being actually hidden? Thematically, I think it fits, and it would allow me to work in some stealth ties. Do you think that's too powerful an effect, or is it not powerful at all?)

      Deceptive Long Shadow is actually meant to be used while the solar is visible, meant to imply a deception as to where she actually attacked from. Really, it's meant to aid the solar in convincing her opponent that she is not the real shadow.

      An important aspect of the form charm is that you activate it before the attack is rolled, meaning it is possible to waste a clone this way. I think that helps balance it a little, but I see what you are saying about the power level of the effect.

      The shadow clones are supposed to have no substance on their own, being mere illusions. Thus, without an effect like Feather Weight Darkness, they could be distinguished merely by touch. I'll rewrite it to be more clear on that purpose.

      Shadow Of Damocles is an effect I specifically wanted to be separate from the rest, considering how powerful having visually perfect duplicates up at all times is.

      I had thought that maybe extreme was a bit too far. I like the suggestion of carrying her voice on a projectile as a bonus, very fitting to the concept. Maybe set the base range to medium, and add in your suggested combo effect?

      And finally, Shadow Over Flame. I had actually never considered the initiative not being split! The idea hadn't occured, to the point where I didn't think to clarify! Thank you for catching that! I wanted to put in a bonus to each spent anima level, considering the fact that a flaring anima makes the style less effective. Perhaps it should be changed to a bonus on the attack roll rather than damage?

      And yeah, I haven't put in any terrestrial or mastery effects mostly because, plot twist, I forgot they existed when I originally wrote this.

      Thank you so much for your commentary and I hope you'll reply to this as well!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Aquatica View Post
        Goodness! I appreciate the full review, and am really happy with a lot of your suggestions!
        You're welcome

        I like what you're saying about the form charm and Blend With Fading Light, though I feel that the number of clones should be a definite number, myself. The only other issue with switching their places is thematic, but I should be able to work around that. Perhaps I move Vespertine Echo to earlier in the tree, based on your suggestion on it's essence level.
        Well at least in my mind the actual number of clones present has no real mechanical impact, so I'd personally leave it vague/undefined, as that gives both ST and player more opportunity to build atmosphere by describing how a foe is mocked by laughter resonating from every corner, even his own shadow!

        I like the mechanical suggestion of being using it to establish stealth, and reading everything you've written has led me to agree that it needs more of a mechanical description. However, one of the thematics is that this style isn't meant to rely on actual stealth. I imagine the solar talking, and being visible while she's manipulating with motion and words. Perhaps a combination of both of your suggested effects? A -1 penalty to detecting the Solar, which is applied to finding the real Solar as well, + a chance to establish stealth at a penalty?
        I assume wer're talking about Fading Sun's Radiance here. What you describe, being there, yet the opponent being unable to actually know where you are, is effectivly a very specialized and charm modified version of establishing stealth. The way I understood the style its supposed to leave a foe helplessly confused, lashing out against his opponent only to notice that it was never his opponent he struck at but only a shadow. That in effect is "just" a flavourful way of describing your opponents inability to attack your character because, mechanically speaking, he has established stealth. The effects of establishing stealth are that your opponent can't locate your character, wether that is because he cannot see him at all or is confused as to which image is the real you is "just" a matter of style, mechanically I think establishing stealth is what you want for this MA. The talking from stealth part then is being accomplished by Vespertine Echo. The Form charm allowing for Manipulation+MA to be rolled for stealth rolls then fully fits this way of establishing and maintaining stealth and allows it to be used by non stealthy characters (with the caveat that such characters allways make other people aware someone is there, just obfsucating their exact whereabouts, therefore not voiding stealth as a useful ability in its own right and limiting this application mostly to combat as MA usually does.)

        As to the suggestion of it inflicting a penalty on the opponent and grant an opportunity to establish stealth at a penalty... I personally would refrain from that for a very simple reason. It makes the charm needlessly complicated and messy. You want to have as clear and simple mechanics and identity for any charm as possible. Sometimes charms have to be complicated, but I don't think this is the case here. Personally I'd go with establishing stealth via the charm, though I'm honestly not sure wether that's overpowered, as establishing stealth usually requires you to take a full action on your next turn, so reflexivly doing it after attacking is really really powerful, especially as it basically prevents an opponent from ever having a chance at retaliation. But as I said before my knowledge about charm balance for 3e is as of yet not deep.


        (An aside, since I'm mostly responding in order, what do you think of making the shadow clones allow the solar to be 'stealthed' without being actually hidden? Thematically, I think it fits, and it would allow me to work in some stealth ties. Do you think that's too powerful an effect, or is it not powerful at all?)
        It's a neat idea, I think I elaborated on that above a bit allready. I'm not sure what you mean by stealth ties. Do you just mean the ability to use the clones to establish stealth? In that case see above.

        Deceptive Long Shadow is actually meant to be used while the solar is visible, meant to imply a deception as to where she actually attacked from. Really, it's meant to aid the solar in convincing her opponent that she is not the real shadow.
        As I said before, the opponent not being sure where exactly you are due to your shadow-fu even though he is aware of your general presence effectivly means you have established stealth. You can't make ambush attacks, but can establish stealth and use unexpected attacks (incurring the usual -2 Defense on the opponents side).
        An important aspect of the form charm is that you activate it before the attack is rolled, meaning it is possible to waste a clone this way. I think that helps balance it a little, but I see what you are saying about the power level of the effect.

        The shadow clones are supposed to have no substance on their own, being mere illusions. Thus, without an effect like Feather Weight Darkness, they could be distinguished merely by touch. I'll rewrite it to be more clear on that purpose.
        I suppse, but the question is what the actual mechanical effect of that is. As it stands the charm does effectivly nothing but influence the way you and your opponents can stunt, which without any mechanics attached to it is in my opinion not worthy of being a charm in itself. Maybe this charm is action long or instant and gives the opponent a penalty for his roll to determine which clone is the real one, effectivly penalizing his rolls opposing your stealth rolls? I'd be careful with scene long boosts/penalties generally as those can be really really powerful.

        Shadow Of Damocles is an effect I specifically wanted to be separate from the rest, considering how powerful having visually perfect duplicates up at all times is.
        Well a solar could just maintain his form charm at all times if he really wanted that effect I think. But I suppose, it just strikes my as a bit odd for MA, it sounds more like something Sorcery would accomplish to me.

        Another thought regarding the charm: I'd choose another name, the Shadow of Damokles sounds more like one of your Shadows attaching and stalking an opponent until some sort of condition is fulfilled at which point it causes some form of harm, potentially an enviromental hazard or a decisive attack... which incidentially I think would be a great charm for this tree at its higher levels.

        I had thought that maybe extreme was a bit too far. I like the suggestion of carrying her voice on a projectile as a bonus, very fitting to the concept. Maybe set the base range to medium, and add in your suggested combo effect?
        Sure that works. Also I would clear it up in the charm description that this charm allows the character to talk and make social attacks without breaking stealth/taking a penalty to stealth due to the opponent honing in on you via his hearing.

        And finally, Shadow Over Flame. I had actually never considered the initiative not being split! The idea hadn't occured, to the point where I didn't think to clarify! Thank you for catching that! I wanted to put in a bonus to each spent anima level, considering the fact that a flaring anima makes the style less effective. Perhaps it should be changed to a bonus on the attack roll rather than damage?
        some bonus effect would be fine, either to damage or the attack roll, but effectivly the way itrs written right now allows you to add 12! dice of damage total regardless of your own intiative which is alot. Maybe one +1 or +2 damage per level that has to be split across all attacks? The effect of retaining used charms on all attacks is really powerful and I'm not sure wether the charm should give additional benefits on top of that.

        And yeah, I haven't put in any terrestrial or mastery effects mostly because, plot twist, I forgot they existed when I originally wrote this.

        Thank you so much for your commentary and I hope you'll reply to this as well!
        No problem

        General thoights regarding the style:
        A charm that enhanced a movement (withdraw particular) action by swapping your own position with that of a shadow clone would fit well I think.

        The charm tree works with thrown weapons, does it ONLY work with thrown weapons or can it also be practiced unarmed? Personall I lean slightly towards the former, because unarmed meele attacks do not seem to fit with the confusion the charm tree wants to evoke. It also cuts down on the hazzle of the charms being paired with pretty much any other MA, thus giving it's charm a bit more breathing room balance wise.


        My Mage 2e Homebrew

        Comment


        • #5
          Don't have enough time to reply to all of that atm, but I'd like to clarify that yes, only thrown weapons.
          Edit: OKAY NEVER MIND. I HAVE PLENTY OF TIME.

          On Shadow of Damocles and the specific number of clones

          Personally, I really like the effect of Shadow Of Damocles. On the other hand, I kinda like the idea that the form charm can just be held onto... But that would mean an indefinite form charm, and while I don't THINK there are issues with that I'm not certain. I'm going to go over that idea for a bit.
          I like your suggestion of changing the effect and will likely do so. If I do, I will either roll the effect into the form charm or make a new charm for it. Probably the first.
          Part of the issue with an undefined number of clones is it means the use of the "You thought you hit me but it was a clone!" effect could be used theoretically indefinitely. Sure I could limit it arbitrarily, but I like the thematic tie to the clones the solar created.

          On the Stealth effect

          I think that we're saying the same thing. I'm considering, and quite liking, the idea that having the clones out functions as a form of stealth without hiding. I think I'll work on rewriting parts of this into that. ... However I'll likely make the rolls based on manipulation, since actually *hiding* isn't what's going on here.

          On your general thoughts

          I was actually specifically avoiding an untriggered switch between the Solar and her Clones. I try to avoid giving proper teleports to my players whenever possible. To many maddening moments. Perhaps I could add in something that enhances a disengage/withdraw action by convincing your opponent that you are definitely not the real shadow and they shouldn't pay attention to you.

          And yeah, the form was never meant to combo with others. I imagine it was crafted for a particular solar, by a particular solar, and the only reason anyone actually ends up learning it in the age of sorrows is that some creatures have very long memories.
          Last edited by Aquatica; 03-12-2018, 08:37 PM.

          Comment

          Working...
          X