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Speculating on the content of "Lunars: Fangs at the Gate"

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  • Speculating on the content of "Lunars: Fangs at the Gate"

    If we follow the pattern of What Fire Has Wrought...

    Chapter One: The Lunars will touch on the history of Luna's Beloved, how they experience Exaltation and Luna's visitation, and the bestial nature of their Essence. There might be a rough census about how many of the 400 Lunar Exalted can be found in any of Creation's five directions.

    Chapter Two: The Silver Pact will talk about the loose bonds of obligation and favors that bind the Lunar Exalted. This starts with finding new Lunars and whisking them away to the safety of the wilds for education and Tattoos, which discharges the debt the older Lunars owe to the Pact for receiving the same service when they first Exalted, while putting that same debt upon the new Lunars to be paid forward in kind later. The Pact will be laid out as a network of information exchange, mutual self-defense, and favor-trading. More detail will be given about how a young Lunar can seek apprenticeship to an elder, asking boons and taking on quests in payment, and how elders might approach juniors for singular favors in return for great boons.

    Chapter Three: Luminaries will introduce the major political figures and factions within the Pact and outside of it. This and the previous chapter will be reversed in order from their equivalents in What Fire Has Wrought, but I think -- if only in this case -- this progression makes more sense.

    Chapter Four: Dominions will cover the kingdoms created and shaped by those major figures discussed in Chapter Three.


    Then chapters for character creation, traits, Lunar Charms, Martial Arts and Sorcery, and some Quick Stats for notable figures.

    They might get a Chapter for artifacts, or it might be given entirely over to mundane animals, to provide a greater variety of Heart's Blood than the Corebook offers.

    Or perhaps the animals might share space with the notable figures in a larger Chapter 10, since it's already a place of Quick Stats? That would make a lot of sense.


    I'm certainly not expecting as many as eight Martial Arts Styles, and might be surprised to see as many as three. One might be Celestial Monkey Style. Any others would have to be totally new, since White Reaper and Silver-Voiced Nightingale were in the Core, Terrible Ascent-Driven Beast Style doesn't do anything special, and everything else is either elemental, Abyssal, or to some extent Sidereal.

    On the other hand, I would be unsurprised to see at least two or three new Sorcerous Initiations, at least a few Terrestrial Circle spells, and a dozen Celestial Circle spells.

    Getting as many artifacts as the Heirlooms would be cool (especially since Vance said Lunars can craft better than Dragon-Blooded, and so should have a Five-Dot or two), but like Martial Arts, the word count will probably be curtailed to make room in Chapter 10 for a lot of animals.


    I'm not expecting a return of the damned Litany or whatever those waste-of-space "rules" were called.

    Likewise, "Renown" isn't likely to return, and good riddance. The Influence Merit seems to more than suffice.


    I want to see lots of canonical Lunar "Half-Castes"; the Moon-Touched. Previous editions have always given Lunar rulers beastmen followers, but have rather shied away from those who also (or only) inherited the less-physical, more-magical gifts of the Lunar Exalted.

    I also want to see God-Blooded princes and princesses, born of romantic or political unions with mighty spirits; Elementals, terrestrial gods, stray Celestial gods, demons, Fair Folk, anything.

    These magical children would never stand a chance against Dragon-Blooded, but they would more useful agents than mere mortals.


    I also want to see a lot more sorcerous workings used on peoples, territories, edifices, and tools passed down among mortals, as Lunar Exalted make use of Terrestrial and Celestial sorcery to bolster the power of their holdings and followers, with none of the Realm’s distrust of the art.

    Full Moon kings who never become sorcerers can trade favors across the Silver Pact to acquire the services of Celestial sorcerers.

    Halta is cute, with people living in trees with talking animals, but that really seems to be only scratching the surface of the kind of fantasy societies and enchanted environments that Lunars could create which are inimical and resistant to invasion or assimilation by the Realm, Lookshy, or Prasad.

    “I have ensorcelled the land to produce bountiful crops, but even if you take it from my people, good luck maintaining the blessing without performing the spiritual rites which would blaspheme your phony religion!”

    “Oh, you turned my transformed people against me? Will you still enjoy their loyalty after following the rites of the Immaculate faith robs them of the strength I gave them within a generation?”

    .
    Last edited by Sunder the Gold; 04-26-2018, 08:32 AM.


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  • #2
    Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
    The fact that Rain Deathflyer comes of as the young junior partner backing Halta emphasizes the problem of First Age survivors being the default for Elder Lunars.

    Ideally the norm for Elder Lunars should be centuries old but Exalted post-contagion. Meeting a Shogunate survivor should be a big deal - and First Age survivors should be whispered legends.
    If "Fangs at the Gate" give the Shogunate-era Lunar elders the kind of focus the First Age survivors got in the last two Editions, and gives the First Age elders basically no attention at all...

    Well, that might be just spiffy.

    Do we REALLY need to hear about how little Ma Ha Suchi, Leviathan, and Lillith are and have been doing, again? We get it already; they're depressed and sulking and want you damn kids off of their lawn.

    Tammuz and Magnificent Jaguar also don't need to return unless they've actually been accomplishing anything.

    Rain Deathflier is supposed to be Shogunate-era, so if he's supposed to have anything to do with Halta, it had better be greatly changed for the stronger and weirder. Especially if he's still lovers with a First Age elder. What the hell has Silver Python ever done?

    Raksi is the most active and productive of all of them, which isn't particularly encouraging since she's Raksi. She's at least more respectable than before, but how high a bar was that to clear?


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    • #3
      Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post

      If "Fangs at the Gate" give the Shogunate-era Lunar elders the kind of focus the First Age survivors got in the last two Editions, and gives the First Age elders basically no attention at all...

      Well, that might be just spiffy.

      Do we REALLY need to hear about how little Ma Ha Suchi, Leviathan, and Lillith are and have been doing, again? We get it already; they're depressed and sulking and want you damn kids off of their lawn.

      Tammuz and Magnificent Jaguar also don't need to return unless they've actually been accomplishing anything.

      Rain Deathflier is supposed to be Shogunate-era, so if he's supposed to have anything to do with Halta, it had better be greatly changed for the stronger and weirder. Especially if he's still lovers with a First Age elder. What the hell has Silver Python ever done?

      Raksi is the most active and productive of all of them, which isn't particularly encouraging since she's Raksi. She's at least more respectable than before, but how high a bar was that to clear?

      Who is to say they wouldn't tune them up like they did Mnemon and add new facets to their character that makes them more interesting?


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      • #4
        Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
        Getting as many artifacts as the Heirlooms would be cool (especially since Vance said Lunars can craft better than Dragon-Blooded, and so should have a Five-Dot or two)
        Ohh would you look at that fumes
        ... ohh, also I hope they put in plenty of beasties, particularly the more extreme ones, insects, tyrant lizards, that kind of thing

        Last edited by Lion Hamster; 04-26-2018, 02:20 AM.

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        • #5
          Tyrant lizards are already in the Core.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mizu View Post
            Who is to say they wouldn't tune them up like they did Mnemon and add new facets to their character that makes them more interesting?
            Vance's said previously he's felt many of the Lunar elders deserve better, citing Lilith, Raksi and Ma-Ha-Suchi.

            He's also said they may introduce new Lunar elders.


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            • #7
              I think that's very likely to happen! There's also some things where it doesn't actually require too much adding. Half of the stuff that could make Raksi interesting in third edition is already there in the first edition. Lilith's whole concept is there basically. Ma-Ha-Suchi is an odd one where I'm not sure how to "overhaul him" or if you need to, since the corebook already gives a decent sense of his deal. Hearing about it from the perspective of his would-be Lunar charges or allies would be awesome though!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                Tyrant lizards are already in the Core.
                "Kind of thing"

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                • #9
                  I'm guessing they will not dedicate that much wordcount to the silver pact.
                  There's this thing about media: it doesn't do much to change opinions, but it sets the narrative. If the silver pact is written about far more than its alternatives (like regional zeitgeists about lunars), it will be the primary, almost only, setting presumption about lunars.


                  So my guess is that the silver pact won't have more than half a chapter for itself.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Synapse View Post
                    I'm guessing they will not dedicate that much wordcount to the silver pact.
                    There's this thing about media: it doesn't do much to change opinions, but it sets the narrative. If the silver pact is written about far more than its alternatives (like regional zeitgeists about lunars), it will be the primary, almost only, setting presumption about lunars.


                    So my guess is that the silver pact won't have more than half a chapter for itself.
                    There are far more options for Dragon-Blooded than the Realm now, but there was still an entire chapter dedicated to the Great Houses and an entire other chapter dedicated to Dynastic life within the Realm.

                    Places like Fajad, Prasad, and even Lookshy have get that kind of detail in an entirely separate book, and otherwise only get mentioned in a separate, non-Great Houses, non-Dynastic childhood chapter. And the separate book will actually go into more detail about the Dynasty, too.


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                    • #11
                      I think the last time I checked with Robert Vance, he might have said that Celestial Monkey Style wouldn’t be in the Lunar book.

                      I’m hesitant to take that seriously, because of Sun Wukong the shapeshifting Stone Monkey King, Sage Surpassing Heaven. Not exactly a Sidereal figure, that one.


                      We’ve already gotten the other four classic Chinese animal Styles: Snake, Tiger, Crane, and now Mantis.

                      I’m sure there’s a Chinese Dragon Style as well, and we just got five whole Dragon Styles.

                      The corebook already gave us White Reaper and Silver-Voiced Nightingale Styles.

                      We’ve already gotten all of the previous sneaky ninja assassin Styles: Ebon Shadow, Dreaming Pearl Courtesan, Black Claw, and White Veil.

                      There’s Crystal Chameleon Style, I suppose, but I would expect to see that in the Sidereals book rather than Celestial Monkey. Lunars who want to be stealthy in combat can temporarily assume small forms, and turn into cheetahs and birds when they want to be fast.

                      The Four Arguments of Virtue Styles were made for gods by other gods or Sidereals.

                      Hungry Ghost is primarily Abyssal.

                      Laughing Wounds Style isn’t likely to return, based on developer comments. Even if it did: Abyssal.

                      Crimson Pentacle, Even Blade, Fivefold Shadow Hand, Seafaring Hero, Ill Lily, Jade Mountain, and Night Breeze Styles are all “I can’t believe I’m not Dragon-Blooded!” Styles.

                      Golden Exhalation Style... we already have Righteous Devil Style which now has a built-in Terrestrial level, and we have native Dragon-Blooded firewand Charms.

                      Falling Blossom Style is “I am an expendable NPC” Style, and Quick Character stat blocks don’t need a fully-written Martial Arts Style Charm tree.

                      Path of the Arbiter is “I am a mortal pretending to be a Solar!” Style, but mortals can’t learn Charms anymore.


                      So, I’ve narrowed the options of possible returning Styles which are not Monkey to three, and I’ll address them in another post.

                      .
                      Last edited by Sunder the Gold; 04-26-2018, 10:17 AM.


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                      • #12
                        Idiot question; is Fangs at the Gate a confirmed subtitle? And if so, wherefrom?

                        (I thought I'd been keeping up, but...)


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                        • #13
                          Who says any of the styles in the Lunars book have to be an update to an old one?

                          Also, Celestial Monkey wasn't all that memorable or interesting, at least not to me.

                          Really, only three things stuck with me:

                          -One, how nonsensical it felt for your ability to practice the style to implode if you ever raised your Virtue dots too high.

                          -Two, hitting people in places corresponding to their Virtue dots, it really felt like someone was tripping over themself to get a dick joke printed.

                          -Three, the capstone permitting me to treat whatever weapons and armor I wanted as acceptable for the style felt like it was dragging the idea of "having any real feel to it" out back and putting a round in its head.


                          I'd much rather see a new style in its place, such as Scorpion, Falcon, Bull, Spider, or Wolf Style. If we have to bring Monkey back, it needs to be overhauled pretty drastically.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wastevens View Post
                            Idiot question; is Fangs at the Gate a confirmed subtitle? And if so, wherefrom?

                            (I thought I'd been keeping up, but...)
                            Yep, I can confirm that the full name of the book is Lunars: Fangs at the Gate.


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                            • #15
                              I wouldn't be surprised if it's just Moneky, not Celestial monkey. Kind of like how "Silver-Voiced" is kinda an add-on to what is ultimately just Nightingale Style.

                              Centipede wouldn't be bad to see back. And if we soemday see Scorpion, Lizard and Toad, we can have the Five Deadly Venoms.


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