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Synergys of The Black Veiled Courtesan?

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  • #16
    Effects like Flexing the Emerald Claw which apply poisons combo with The Dragon Succumbs as well as Birdsong Over Blades. Storm-Calming Embrace combos decently with The Dragon Dies Screaming. Really, all of these form a cluster of <everything that applies or takes advantage of poison, useable alongside bare-handed unarmored martial arts>.
    Outside of Martial Arts, Blithe Unruffled Plumage combos with things that improve Guile, eg. Guarded Thoughts Meditation.
    The ability to apply poisons, diseases and other on-decisive-hit effects without resetting to base is strong with Snake Style's desire to stay at higher initiative, even without using gambits/essence venom strike.

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    • #17
      White Veil + Black Claw
      - Thematically, totally not attacking the person who is trying to unjustly murder you "fits."
      - Synergy in that both want Guile 6, Manipulation 5.
      - Flexing the Emerald Claw is a low cost, shallow charn that can deliver poison and let you play the feel of WV early.
      - White Veil adds Soak, a defense BC doesnt have.
      - Attacking someone with both of these styles is a disaster waiting to happen. You can lose up to 6+Intimacy initiative on top of 5 dice unsoakable withering damage.

      White Veil and Silver Voiced Nightingale
      There isn't much synergy here, though I like the mystique. You could have SVN handle your withering attacks White Veil supplements the decisive attacks.

      White Veil and Dreaming Pearl Courtesan
      DPC allows for shirt ranged attacks, a no WP Decidive finisher, and some evasion/soak benefits. I don't see nuch synergy here, but I could see a character having both.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post
        White Veil Style is giving me the idea of what is definitely to be my next character when I have the chance.

        I want a Combat Stealth + Disguise Larceny Monster. With everyone he incapacitates he disappears and comes back as another person. Even more terrifying with Killing Shroud Technique. You can come back as the person you just killed, to keep killing their friends. And nobody will be none the wiser! Just too cool. It is not too synergistic with KST, KST is just needed to substitute specific people. But with Mind Shroud Meditation and Flashing Ruse Prana, you can come back as different generic people to spread the murder on. You can a kill a whole crowd, one by one, without anyone realizing.

        Like a terrifying breeze that murders anyone it touches. Imagine walking into a place where this has taken place. Scary shit.
        I'd like to introduce you to a little game called Prototype... The only reason I'm not playing an Alex Mercer Solar is because I might wanna play an Alex Mercer Lunar or Alex Mercer Exigent.

        Imagine finishing the charm trees for Brawl, Resistance, Athletics, Larceny, Melee (your own body), and having a Thrown Specialty (Vehicles).
        Last edited by Sorcerous Overlord; 05-02-2018, 05:23 AM.


        ..."But I've bought a big bat, I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me"

        Message me for Japanese translations.

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        • #19
          With the synergy, though, I think it's a thematically appropriate mix of MAs, and probably very fun, but there's some problems. You can't disguise your Flexing the Emerald Claw decisives with Bridsong Over Blades, because it needs to deal damage to poison, and Pearlescent Filigree Defense instantly disables White Veil and Black Claw. That's just the low Essence problems I instantly thought of.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Cheshire Cat View Post
            With the synergy, though, I think it's a thematically appropriate mix of MAs, and probably very fun, but there's some problems. You can't disguise your Flexing the Emerald Claw decisives with Bridsong Over Blades, because it needs to deal damage to poison, and Pearlescent Filigree Defense instantly disables White Veil and Black Claw. That's just the low Essence problems I instantly thought of.
            Where do you read that Flexing the Emerald Claw must do damage to work? It doesn't, unlike Snake's Essence Venom Strike, which specifically mentions it does, or Crippling Pressure-Point Attack, which is a Gambit.

            As it stands, Birdsong Over Blades + Flexing the Emerald Claw is a legal combo.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post

              I'd like to introduce you to a little game called Prototype... The only reason I'm not playing an Alex Mercer Solar is because I might wanna play an Alex Mercer Lunar or Alex Mercer Exigent.

              Imagine finishing the charm trees for Brawl, Resistance, Athletics, Larceny, Melee (your own body), and having a Thrown Specialty (Vehicles).
              Will check it out! Though probably won't play, had to kind of give up on video games after becoming a father. One must choose his hobbies, and I chose TTRPG, as they're easier to step away from than games, for me. I've tried and used many drugs, and never got addicted. But holy shit, video games, specially MMORPGs, will consume my life and cause me problems before I step away.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post

                Where do you read that Flexing the Emerald Claw must do damage to work? It doesn't, unlike Snake's Essence Venom Strike, which specifically mentions it does, or Crippling Pressure-Point Attack, which is a Gambit.

                As it stands, Birdsong Over Blades + Flexing the Emerald Claw is a legal combo.

                Yeah my fault, I was going by this post:
                http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...e-devs/page732

                And didn't remember that Essence Venom Strike calls out for damage specifically.

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                • #23
                  Hmm, could I use this thread to workshop a semi-coherent (aren't they all) beginners build for a Dawn White Veil / Black Claw stylist? Then everyone can point and laugh! (Please don't point and laugh).

                  I'm one of the unrepentent concept school of character creation in that I make the concept, then I bolt on cool backstory/traits/etc.

                  Core Concepts:
                  - Manipulation and Guile play a lot into the synergy between the two styles, these two values will have to be maxed.

                  - There is some poison synergy in White Veil and Black Claw, Black Claw at low levels and White Veil at High Levels. Also, no Initiative loss from poisoning (but no damage) - early fight debilitation?

                  - Core abilities for the combos:

                  1. Martial Arts in White Veil and Black Claw, will have to be maxed, a long with Dexterity.
                  2. Socialize to maximize Guile, will also have to be maxed, a long with Manipulation.

                  - Secondary abilities:
                  1. Stealth - White Veil is very synergistic with high Stealth, and gets one of the most mote efficient stealth booster in the game. Imagine, if you will, 3m for up to around 7 dice?
                  2. Black Claw more or less depends on instilling Intimacies, thus Influence forming abilities must be high (presence, really) - Key off Appearance or Manipulation? Not enough points to max Charisma as well.

                  -Tertiary:
                  ??? Can determine later.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by prototype00 View Post
                    Hmm, could I use this thread to workshop a semi-coherent (aren't they all) beginners build for a Dawn White Veil / Black Claw stylist? Then everyone can point and laugh! (Please don't point and laugh).

                    I'm one of the unrepentent concept school of character creation in that I make the concept, then I bolt on cool backstory/traits/etc.

                    Core Concepts:
                    - Manipulation and Guile play a lot into the synergy between the two styles, these two values will have to be maxed.

                    - There is some poison synergy in White Veil and Black Claw, Black Claw at low levels and White Veil at High Levels. Also, no Initiative loss from poisoning (but no damage) - early fight debilitation?

                    - Core abilities for the combos:

                    1. Martial Arts in White Veil and Black Claw, will have to be maxed, a long with Dexterity.
                    2. Socialize to maximize Guile, will also have to be maxed, a long with Manipulation.

                    - Secondary abilities:
                    1. Stealth - White Veil is very synergistic with high Stealth, and gets one of the most mote efficient stealth booster in the game. Imagine, if you will, 3m for up to around 7 dice?
                    2. Black Claw more or less depends on instilling Intimacies, thus Influence forming abilities must be high (presence, really) - Key off Appearance or Manipulation? Not enough points to max Charisma as well.

                    -Tertiary:
                    ??? Can determine later.
                    Are you really set on a Dawn? Depending on how you spend motes stealth will start being pretty impossible, the only easy fix for this that I can see is Essence 3 and fairly deep into Stealth, Sun Swallowing Practice, which would not be a big problem, cause Stealth is one the things you want (maybe not that deep into that specific branch though), but again, it is only available to a Dawn at Essence 3.

                    Oh! Another way may be through Ebon Shadow Form, which turns your Anima into a shapeless and dark mantle, that while doesn't state outright that it lets you stealth while glowing, that is the subtext I understood, your mileage may vary because of ST interpretation.

                    Also consider the value of having Brawl/MA be your Supernal. Most MA Charms are low hanging fruit. I think all cap at Essence 3, and most are E1 or E2. So being a Dawn for that Supernal is not too important if you expect the game to last at least until Essence 3.

                    While if you were a Night, your Anima lets you treat Peripheral expenditures as Personal, for 2 motes, which would let you keep stealthing. Plus you can Supernal Socialize or Larceny.

                    Now for Synergies:

                    Speaking of Ebon Shadow, some early Charms have good synergy, Nothing But Shadows is just plain good, penalizing attempts to keep you out of stealth, and gives you a way out if someone sees trhough your shenenigans and hits you. Seven Points of Weakness Strike is a great boost to a stealthed withering attack, poison them, then crash them and watch them die. If you're willing to go 2 deeper, Shadow-Stepping Motion, is also very decent and thematic.

                    Socialize has the perfect Guarded Thoughts Meditation, 4m committed for Indefinite +3 Guile at Essence 2, this is a must have. For Intimacy creating goodness, Energic Influence Technique is very good along with the very thematic Indecent Proposal Method, though Socialize instills would need Presence's Poised Lion Attitude to work nicely. I would also take a Socialize Specialty (In Disguise) and have Guile 6 while disguised, baseline.

                    In Presence there are many options, to keep to theme I would take the seduction branch all the way to Rose-Lipped Seduction Style, which includes an Appearance cap breaker, Majestic Radiant Presence to make it even harder to target you, Poised Lion Attitude for no penalty flurries and up to Fulminating Word and Excellent friend approach, to make your Black Claw Presence based instills that much harder to resist, and to make use of those Intimacies to boss people around.

                    Next we have Performance, which I would take up to Thousand Courtesan Ways, for the add on seduction with instills and another Appearance cap breaker, and Master Thespian Style, which is a scene long +1 Guile for one mote, if you stay in character, which expressly works with Flawlessly Impenetrable Disguise. So choose a character to play while you murder people.

                    Larceny has the disguise branch I would take for theme and awesomeness, depending how deep you´re willing to go, it will have some good synergies with Stealth too. And Fate-Shifting Solar Arete for general amazingness.

                    Stealth has the whole combat stealth branch, which is pretty bread and butter, but I can comment if you have doubts about it.

                    So lets look at this guy's Guile:

                    Maxxed Base: Guile 5 (0m)

                    Specialty - In Disguise + Flawlessly Impenetrable Disguise: +1 Guile (6m)

                    Guarded Thoughts Meditation: +3 Guile (4m)

                    Master Thespian Style: +1 Guile (1m)

                    White Veil Form: +1 Guile (7m)

                    Total Guile: 11 Total Commitment: 18m

                    You can commit more motes to have up to Appearance 7, to reduce cost of Social Influence Charms, or to force people to have to pay Willpower to attack, if they can locate you and see through your disguise first, that is. And even if they see through all this deception, they might not be able to help themselves and just fall in love with you. Ain't that a bitch?

                    EDIT: Ah Also forgot Dodge's Rumor of Form, as another in combat stealth attempt option.
                    Last edited by TGUEIROS; 05-02-2018, 11:10 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Ebon Shadow Form disguises your anima, not hides it.

                      It hides your distinctive colors and iconography. But it is still just as big and bright.


                      Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                      My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post

                        Are you really set on a Dawn? Depending on how you spend motes stealth will start being pretty impossible, the only easy fix for this that I can see is Essence 3 and fairly deep into Stealth, Sun Swallowing Practice, which would not be a big problem, cause Stealth is one the things you want (maybe not that deep into that specific branch though), but again, it is only available to a Dawn at Essence 3.
                        Hmm, Stealth is more utility/first strike for a starting Martial Artists. Personally I just wanted the combination of Doe Eyes Defence / Torn Lotus Defence to almost Crash people who attack me.

                        Oh! Another way may be through Ebon Shadow Form, which turns your Anima into a shapeless and dark mantle, that while doesn't state outright that it lets you stealth while glowing, that is the subtext I understood, your mileage may vary because of ST interpretation.

                        Also consider the value of having Brawl/MA be your Supernal. Most MA Charms are low hanging fruit. I think all cap at Essence 3, and most are E1 or E2. So being a Dawn for that Supernal is not too important if you expect the game to last at least until Essence 3.
                        Call me shallow, but I tend to like to go for the easy power combos at Ess 1, then work my way up. It takes quite a while to get to Ess 3, even with regular games.

                        While if you were a Night, your Anima lets you treat Peripheral expenditures as Personal, for 2 motes, which would let you keep stealthing. Plus you can Supernal Socialize or Larceny.
                        Depends if you want to focus on the Stealthing or the Fighting. For me, I kind of want to be Exalted Female Zorro, rather than a Kunoichi (though I suppose she is that as well).

                        Now for Synergies:

                        Speaking of Ebon Shadow, some early Charms have good synergy, Nothing But Shadows is just plain good, penalizing attempts to keep you out of stealth, and gives you a way out if someone sees trhough your shenenigans and hits you. Seven Points of Weakness Strike is a great boost to a stealthed withering attack, poison them, then crash them and watch them die. If you're willing to go 2 deeper, Shadow-Stepping Motion, is also very decent and thematic.
                        Hmm, I'll go re-read Ebon Shadow again, to be honest, I was going to splash Snake for the early boosters. Once again, Stealth or Fighting.

                        Socialize has the perfect Guarded Thoughts Meditation, 4m committed for Indefinite +3 Guile at Essence 2, this is a must have. For Intimacy creating goodness, Energic Influence Technique is very good along with the very thematic Indecent Proposal Method, though Socialize instills would need Presence's Poised Lion Attitude to work nicely. I would also take a Socialize Specialty (In Disguise) and have Guile 6 while disguised, baseline.
                        Ohh yeah, Socialize gets some purchases. Definitely Shadow over Day to start off with, but at Ess 2, definitely (to win even harder). The disguise is a good idea for later synergies.

                        In Presence there are many options, to keep to theme I would take the seduction branch all the way to Rose-Lipped Seduction Style, which includes an Appearance cap breaker, Majestic Radiant Presence to make it even harder to target you, Poised Lion Attitude for no penalty flurries and up to Fulminating Word and Excellent friend approach, to make your Black Claw Presence based instills that much harder to resist, and to make use of those Intimacies to boss people around.
                        Mercy! I only have so many charms. Good news is, Charms are cheap to buy in game.

                        Next we have Performance, which I would take up to Thousand Courtesan Ways, for the add on seduction with instills and another Appearance cap breaker, and Master Thespian Style, which is a scene long +1 Guile for one mote, if you stay in character, which expressly works with Flawlessly Impenetrable Disguise. So choose a character to play while you murder people.
                        Definitely good value buys.

                        Larceny has the disguise branch I would take for theme and awesomeness, depending how deep you´re willing to go, it will have some good synergies with Stealth too. And Fate-Shifting Solar Arete for general amazingness.

                        Stealth has the whole combat stealth branch, which is pretty bread and butter, but I can comment if you have doubts about it.
                        Heh, You've convinced me to possibly splash Larceny.

                        So lets look at this guy's Guile:

                        Maxxed Base: Guile 5 (0m)

                        Specialty - In Disguise + Flawlessly Impenetrable Disguise: +1 Guile (6m)

                        Guarded Thoughts Meditation: +3 Guile (4m)

                        Master Thespian Style: +1 Guile (1m)

                        White Veil Form: +1 Guile (7m)

                        Total Guile: 11 Total Commitment: 18m

                        You can commit more motes to have up to Appearance 7, to reduce cost of Social Influence Charms, or to force people to have to pay Willpower to attack, if they can locate you and see through your disguise first, that is. And even if they see through all this deception, they might not be able to help themselves and just fall in love with you. Ain't that a bitch?

                        EDIT: Ah Also forgot Dodge's Rumor of Form, as another in combat stealth attempt option.
                        Thats alot of commitment, once again I'll be aiming a bit for low hanging stuff to begin with.
                        Last edited by prototype00; 05-02-2018, 12:32 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Alright so here's what I got. (First Draft to be revised)

                          Mistress Dusk - Renowned Tea Ceremony Master by day, Virtuous Assassin by night!

                          Attributes:

                          Physical (Secondary)

                          Strength OOO
                          Dexterity OOOOO
                          Stamina O

                          Social (Primary)

                          Charisma O
                          Manipulation OOOOO
                          Appearance OOOOO

                          Mental (Tertiary)

                          Perception OO
                          Intelligence OOO
                          Wits OO

                          Abilities:

                          C
                          Brawl O
                          C Martial Arts (White Veil) OOOOO
                          C Martial Arts (Black Claw) OOOOO (Razor Sharp Nails)
                          C Dodge OOOOO (Hair's Breadth Evasions)
                          C Resistance OO
                          F Larceny OOOOO
                          F Presence OOOOO (Graceful Appeal)
                          F Socialize OOOOO (Keeping others guessing)
                          F Stealth OOOOO
                          F Performance OOO
                          Linguistics O

                          Merits:

                          Martial Arts OOOO
                          Artifact (Silken Robes) OOOO
                          Resources OO


                          Charms:

                          Black Claw
                          Open Palm Caress
                          Torn Lotus Defense
                          Flexing the Emerald Claw
                          Black Claw Form
                          Doe Eyes Defense

                          White Veil
                          Birdsong Over Blades
                          Alehouse Memory Stance

                          Dodge
                          Reed in the Wind
                          Drifting Leaf Elusion
                          Shadow over Water
                          Searing Quicksilver Flight

                          Presence
                          Harmonious Presence Meditation
                          Poised Lion Attitude

                          Socialize
                          Shadow over Day

                          Resistance
                          Ox Body Technique

                          Phew! I will probably have to change things around. No time before bed, but I'll probably give my reasoning for things tomorrow.

                          prototype00
                          Last edited by prototype00; 05-02-2018, 12:23 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Query: Does Guile Raised by Charms count for the calculation of Doe Eyes Defense et al? Or is it base Guile only?

                            I also take it you can't Stunt Guile while activating charms, yes?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by prototype00 View Post
                              Query: Does Guile Raised by Charms count for the calculation of Doe Eyes Defense et al? Or is it base Guile only?

                              I also take it you can't Stunt Guile while activating charms, yes?
                              Base only.

                              Guile is a static value, and I can't remember any restrictions on stunting it.

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                              • #30
                                prototype00

                                You got your Caste Abilities wrong, if you Caste/Favor Brawl, you automatically Caste/Favor all Martial Arts. You only need to spend one option on it.

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