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  • Lukkychukky
    started a topic Sorcery Workshop

    Sorcery Workshop

    If this exists in another thread, I apologize for spamming. But since I haven't found one, I'm creating it here.

    I want to know how you, fellow Exalted player, go about creating new spells. From the mundane to the monumental, what is your process when developing a new spell?

  • Jefepato
    replied
    Originally posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post

    So, the usual rule of thumb I use is that Terrestrial Circle spells can affect an army, Celestial Circle spells can affect a city, and Solar Circle spells can affect a country. Obviously, there are exceptions to this - Rain of Doom, as you note, only gets a city, but it's Solar Circle. So some adjustments have to be made for "intensity" of effect within the area. I think the essential question to ask here, is how much of the Biblical miracle do you want to emulate? Is it just the 40 days and nights of continuous rain? (As an aside, I've been told that the "40 days" used in the original Hebrew text was essentially a synonym for "a very long time", sort of the way we might say "it rained for ages", so the intent in the Bible might not have been as precise as it seems.) Or do you want the effect to be "a given region is totally flooded"?

    If it's the first, I think a kingdom-sized region is not unreasonable for the rain to cover - something like (Essence X 50) miles radius? If you cast that in any low-lying area, it's going to flood, even if it might not cover every single bit of land. Also, pretty much everywhere downstream of it will flood too. I think you'd probably have noticeable effects thousands of miles from where you cast the spell. Like, if you cast this over that big lake at the eastern tip of the Grey River, then a week or month later you'd get Great Forks, Nexus, and probably Lookshy all flooding.

    Now, if you want to just completely drown a region, and the rain is just a magical means of that happening, effectively depositing more water than would actually be possible, I'd make that a smaller area. However, you could expand the area back out if you were willing to say that, at the end of the flood, the excess water just sort of vanished, rather than spreading out and flooding other regions. So, a Solar Circle spell that drowned a region under, say, 500 feet of water should probably only cover about (Essence X 5) miles radius, and then the water drops by 100 feet every 10 miles outside that, until it's completely down. That creates a "mountain" of water that gently lowers and vanishes when the spell ends. If it didn't vanish, you'd have to make the area much smaller, and probably shallower, because that's a stupendous quantity of water - if it doesn't vanish when the spell ends, but instead pours out and flows over the landscape, that's absolutely devastating, and in a way that's probably very hard for STs to adjudicate.
    Continuous rain for an extended period of time was the intent -- the kind of disaster that doesn't kill many people directly (unless they're not able-bodied enough to flee to higher ground), but damages buildings, ruins crops, and makes the area essentially unlivable until it's over. The region doesn't need to be totally flooded, and I would expect only the low-lying areas would end up completely underwater.

    I hadn't even considered how far the effects could potentially spread. That could get seriously ugly.

    Thanks for the help. The "just flood this whole region" idea is pretty interesting as well, and could make a hell of a weapon. (And if you follow it up with Atrocious Fire Transformation...)

    Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
    What about a golden calf or a statue that just plain erodes away intimacies? Or is that a sorcerous working?
    I mean, it could be an artifact, but if it's largely an effect tied to a fixed location (i.e. that golden calf statue isn't going anywhere) then a sorcerous working probably makes the most sense. If you want it to be a temporary effect -- i.e., a spell that simply manifests in the form of a golden calf when cast, and lasts maybe a scene or a week or something -- that could certainly be a spell, though.

    Did you have any particular mechanics in mind? Is it intended to erode all Intimacies, like you're setting people up for Cup Boils Over or something? Or is it meant to erode some specific Intimacies?

    It should be noted that in 3e, there's a tendency to avoid spells that totally invalidate the need for certain skills. (Consider Peacock Shadow Eyes, which makes your social influence easier to apply but still requires the use of actual social skills.) So something like this would probably manifest in a way that uses the sorcerer's actual Performance or whatever.

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  • Accelerator
    replied
    What about a golden calf or a statue that just plain erodes away intimacies? Or is that a sorcerous working?

    Leave a comment:


  • Kelly Pedersen
    replied
    Originally posted by Jefepato View Post
    Suppose a sorcerer wanted to summon a terrible downpour of rain that lasted for forty days and forty nights. How large an area could a Solar Circle spell flood in this way?
    So, the usual rule of thumb I use is that Terrestrial Circle spells can affect an army, Celestial Circle spells can affect a city, and Solar Circle spells can affect a country. Obviously, there are exceptions to this - Rain of Doom, as you note, only gets a city, but it's Solar Circle. So some adjustments have to be made for "intensity" of effect within the area. I think the essential question to ask here, is how much of the Biblical miracle do you want to emulate? Is it just the 40 days and nights of continuous rain? (As an aside, I've been told that the "40 days" used in the original Hebrew text was essentially a synonym for "a very long time", sort of the way we might say "it rained for ages", so the intent in the Bible might not have been as precise as it seems.) Or do you want the effect to be "a given region is totally flooded"?

    If it's the first, I think a kingdom-sized region is not unreasonable for the rain to cover - something like (Essence X 50) miles radius? If you cast that in any low-lying area, it's going to flood, even if it might not cover every single bit of land. Also, pretty much everywhere downstream of it will flood too. I think you'd probably have noticeable effects thousands of miles from where you cast the spell. Like, if you cast this over that big lake at the eastern tip of the Grey River, then a week or month later you'd get Great Forks, Nexus, and probably Lookshy all flooding.

    Now, if you want to just completely drown a region, and the rain is just a magical means of that happening, effectively depositing more water than would actually be possible, I'd make that a smaller area. However, you could expand the area back out if you were willing to say that, at the end of the flood, the excess water just sort of vanished, rather than spreading out and flooding other regions. So, a Solar Circle spell that drowned a region under, say, 500 feet of water should probably only cover about (Essence X 5) miles radius, and then the water drops by 100 feet every 10 miles outside that, until it's completely down. That creates a "mountain" of water that gently lowers and vanishes when the spell ends. If it didn't vanish, you'd have to make the area much smaller, and probably shallower, because that's a stupendous quantity of water - if it doesn't vanish when the spell ends, but instead pours out and flows over the landscape, that's absolutely devastating, and in a way that's probably very hard for STs to adjudicate.

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  • Jefepato
    replied
    So, a while back we had some discussion about spells inspired by Biblical miracles.

    Beckoning That Which Stirs the Sky (a Terrestrial spell) can change the weather for a few miles around, for a few hours. Rain of Doom (a Solar spell) can drop horrifying acid rain over a small city (or a major district of Nexus) overnight.

    Suppose a sorcerer wanted to summon a terrible downpour of rain that lasted for forty days and forty nights. How large an area could a Solar Circle spell flood in this way?

    (Something like this would be a lot less hellishly deadly than Rain of Doom, since people who didn't live in a valley or something could probably evacuate, but it would still wreak havoc, destroy crops, and do a wide variety of damage.)

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  • Jefepato
    replied
    I posted the first draft of this spell a few pages back. With input from the thread, I've made some updates.

    I ended up slightly increasing the spell's capacity and having it create an actual building as well, in addition to some of the other changes (I'm particularly fond of the "random divine visitors" aspect). I'm not sure if that makes it too good. Please let me know your thoughts.

    The Chieftain's Feast (Celestial Circle Spell)
    Cost: Ritual, 2wp
    Keywords: None
    Duration: Twelve hours or until dismissed

    This spell was devised by a mighty Northern chieftain some years after being Chosen by Luna. He wished to be able to properly reward his warriors for a successful battle, and honor important guests, even when the hunting had been poor.

    The sorcerer spends several minutes tracing out the intended position of his spell, before speaking an elaborate ritual greeting in Old Realm. As he speaks, a structure assembles itself before him. The sorcerer may customize the intended floor plan to some extent, but it is always a single-story building of wood and daub, in the fashion of many Northern tribes. (A longhouse is, of course, traditional.) Inside are tables laden with food, and seating sufficient for (sorcerer's Essence * 20) guests.

    The food produced by this spell is of the sort that the original chieftain considered worthy of his honored guests: roasted elk and duck, hearty venison stew, smoked fish, crusty bread, barley porridge, a variety of fruits and root vegetables, and plenty of ale and mead. The food is easily sufficient to feed everyone seated at the tables, even if they are all very hungry people with large appetites -- and even if they stay for the spell's entire duration.

    Anyone entering the building and partaking of the feast is treated as having a Minor Tie of good cheer and jovial enjoyment of the festivities. The emotional effect of the gathering has an interesting side effect: local spirits (generally from no further away than (sorcerer's Essence) miles) often sense that a party is being held by an important personage, and it is not unknown for a god or two to turn up at the party hoping for an invitation, either because they enjoy parties or because they just can't miss an important person's social event. Few gods are powerful or arrogant enough to make outright demands of a powerful sorcerer, but sufficiently important (in their own minds) gods may well pointedly expect to be invited to the party (and given a place of honor at the sorcerer's own table, naturally), and be offended if the sorcerer does not oblige.

    (If the Storyteller is having trouble deciding whether any unexpected guests should turn up, one suggestion is to roll two dice; a number of gods show up at the door equal to the successes rolled. If the Storyteller rolls double 10s, a surprisingly important god appears, often with a small retinue in tow.)

    Fortunately, anyone joining the gathering temporarily gains a Major Principle of "I must conduct myself as a proper guest" until they leave. Anyone accepting (or demanding) an invitation to the feast instinctively understands that they are agreeing to behave themselves according to the rules of hospitality; most attendees do not actually notice this effect, since members of most cultures in Creation consider hospitality important. (Indeed, some sorcerers don't even realize this is part of the spell.) To be sure, very few gods would disgrace themselves by ruining a party. The spell does not compel guests to actually like each other or their host (although it's a good atmosphere in which to make friends), but they can be expected to take any violence outside.

    After twelve hours have passed, the building and tables vanish, along with all dishes and utensils. (Alternatively, the sorcerer may dismiss the spell early with a brief ritual statement of dismissal.) Any food remaining on the tables vanishes with them; food removed from the tables remains real.

    A sorcerer who knows The Chieftain's Table as her control spell may cast it with a duration of Indefinite. The structure and tables remain for as long as the sorcerer remains in the immediate vicinity. The tables always somehow end up with enough food to feed everyone seated therein. (The spell's capacity is not actually infinite, though -- if a thousand people gather outside while the food is brought out to them, there will not be enough.)
    Last edited by Jefepato; 04-20-2020, 02:42 PM.

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  • The MG
    replied
    Originally posted by Tonkku View Post
    I was hoping in creating new custom sorcery shaping ritual using integrity. I'm still short on details but idea was to have some kind of self perfection meditation themed. One where they could for example meditate for internal pool of sorcerous motes they could used during day. I'm open for any feedback and ideas to have actual content and details instead of just vague idea.
    There are several extant shaping rituals you could use as a basis. Just sticking to the ones in the corebook:

    The second ritual of the Soul-Perfecting Elixir (p. 469) is pretty much exactly what you want. All you'd need to do is replace Stamina with Integrity in the calculations. This initiation also has some highly relevant Merits.

    The third ritual of the Talisman of Ten Thousand Eyes (p. 470) allows you to commit motes during meditation and spend them as sorcerous motes until the end of the day.

    The sample Heptagram ritual (p. 471) can easily be refluffed as meditation. Just make it a (Intelligence + Integrity) roll, or whatever Attribute you feel fits for meditation. If you want to make it a bit more flexible, remove the potential dice bonuses to instead make the roll daily instead of once-per-story (though this should replace your previous stock of sorcerous motes).

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  • JohnDoe244
    replied
    Originally posted by Tonkku View Post
    I was hoping in creating new custom sorcery shaping ritual using integrity. I'm still short on details but idea was to have some kind of self perfection meditation themed. One where they could for example meditate for internal pool of sorcerous motes they could used during day. I'm open for any feedback and ideas to have actual content and details instead of just vague idea.
    This exact thing is in Heirs to the Shogunate.

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  • Tonkku
    replied
    I was hoping in creating new custom sorcery shaping ritual using integrity. I'm still short on details but idea was to have some kind of self perfection meditation themed. One where they could for example meditate for internal pool of sorcerous motes they could used during day. I'm open for any feedback and ideas to have actual content and details instead of just vague idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kelly Pedersen
    replied
    Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post
    I figure it would have be a working. I just thought that is what the ritual meant as I am not too familiar yet with E3 sorcery and workings.
    The difference between spells and workings in 3e is that each spell is learned separately, paying XP for it, and then the character can cast it as many times as they like (although they have to pay whatever ritual costs it includes every time). A working, on the other hand, is something any sorcerer/necromancer could attempt, using their generic "power of sorcery" to enact the change. Each individual working costs some XP, but that's usually cheaper individually than a spell (an Ambition 2 working costs 4 XP, and a spell if Occult is a favored Ability is 8 XP). Workings usually take longer than most spells, though (they're an extended roll with an interval of one week, so at least that if not more).

    3e uses "ritual" in the spell costs for some spells because it was decided that for those spells that required a long ritual and thus couldn't be cast in combat, it was kinda pointless to also specify how many sorcerous motes it took to cast them - most Exalt-level sorcerers would be able to gather the motes long before the ritual completed, and even if they didn't, unless you make the Shape Sorcery actions take much longer on such spells, they'd just finish gathering the motes very shortly after the ritual was done. So it was simpler to just say that such spells had a cost of "do the ritual" and assume that it took however long that ritual did to gather them.

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  • Uknown DarkLord
    replied
    Originally posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post

    I think this works. However, as I've been converting necromancy spells to 3e myself, I'd suggest that using a spell for Rune of Sweet Passing/Gentle Call of Lethe is the wrong approach. They're a bit too specific and only conditionally useful. Instead, I said that they were both common necromantic workings (Iron Circle Ambition 2). I think the logic there holds for this effect too, and I'd put it at Onyx Circle Ambition 2.
    Yeah, that works.

    I figure it would have be a working. I just thought that is what the ritual meant as I am not too familiar yet with E3 sorcery and workings.

    Mostly in the game I GM in the north I figure that the local deathlord would design this working to invert a part of Traveler's Road in the Shadowland. Or attempt to. The players might find it suspicious that suddenly a lot of honey and honeybees are being purchased and sent into the shadowland.

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  • Kelly Pedersen
    replied
    Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post
    Glyphs of Sweet Passing (Labyrinth Circle Ritual)
    I think this works. However, as I've been converting necromancy spells to 3e myself, I'd suggest that using a spell for Rune of Sweet Passing/Gentle Call of Lethe is the wrong approach. They're a bit too specific and only conditionally useful. Instead, I said that they were both common necromantic workings (Iron Circle Ambition 2). I think the logic there holds for this effect too, and I'd put it at Onyx Circle Ambition 2.

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  • Uknown DarkLord
    replied
    Glyphs of Sweet Passing (Labyrinth Circle Ritual)
    Cost: Ritual, 3wp
    Keywords: None
    Target: (Essence x 20 yards)
    Duration: (Essence hours)

    This ritual expands upon the spell Rune of Sweet Passing. However, instead of targeting a living creature, the ground itself may be targeted. So that all who die on said grounds automatically become ghosts rather than passing to Lethe. Like Rune of Sweet Passing, souls who die on this tained ground cannot be sent to Lethe by a Zenith's anima power.

    This requires a massive amount of honey (resource 3 amount of honey), blood and graveyard earth for the necromancer and any thaumaturgic assistants to paint and work into the ground. This can be painted into the walls of buildings as well.

    When a person dies on these tainted lands, supernatural bees release from the ground to race to the necromancer and inform them of a subjects death. The necromancer is informed of the sex, rough age, and what type of being they are. (Mortal, Fae, Solar, Lunar, etc)

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  • The MG
    replied
    A highly experimental shaping ritual.

    The sorcerer's power eats at her, growing hot and swollen as her body wastes away. This manifests as a chronic, supernatural disease with a Morbidity of 3 and an interval of one week. It can't spread to others, nor can it be permanently cured; the sorcerer keeps making weekly (Stamina + Resistance) rolls while in remission, her condition returning to Minor intensity on a failure. In addition to the normal effects of a disease, the sorcerer's condition can grant her sorcerous motes in the following ways:
    • Whenever she loses a point of Willpower or suffers a botch due to her condition; 5 sorcerous motes.
    • If she goes a session without losing Willpower or suffering a botch; (Intensity) sorcerous motes.
    • When the intensity of her condition is reduced by a successful (Stamina + Resistance) roll; (original Intensity) sorcerous motes.
    All sorcerous motes gained last until the end of the current story, and can be spent towards any spell the sorcerer casts.
    It definitely needs some fine-tuning, particularly a cap on how many sorcerous motes you can carry at one time. Ideally, it should be tight enough that you can't just amass an effectively bottomless pool, but not so restrictive as to render the punishing Defining symptom (one automatic botch or -1 Willpower, plus 5 sorcerous motes, per scene) useless.

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  • Accelerator
    replied
    Originally posted by Jefepato View Post

    This is good thinking. Biblical miracles are certainly a good inspiration for sorcery. (The Parting of the Seas would be one example we already have.)

    I was going to say that transmuting water into wine honestly seems kind of low-key for Exalted sorcery, but looking at the story again...transforming 120-180 gallons of water into the finest wine probably is a feat worthy of Terrestrial Circle sorcery.

    (Turning, like, one waterskin of water into decent wine is probably something a thaumaturge could do.)

    )
    Sorry for ignoring the rest of your post. But I just found something. I think. According to touhou, there's a creature that can convert water into alcohol, and when ingested, can make a person incapable of getting drunk.

    How about either a spell or demon that can do this? Turn water into other kinds of liquid. One for turning water into wine. Another for turning water into soup.

    And so on.

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