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What is the end game for a Solar Circle?

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  • What is the end game for a Solar Circle?

    So, I was thinking about this the other day, and I couldn't for the life of me figure it out...

    When playing a DB Exalt, the purpose is - generally speaking - take the throne and rule. That seems pretty clear to me. I know there are other aims/goals, but it seems like ruling the throne is kind of the assumed end game. So, what is that end game for Solars?

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  • #2
    Would "most" DBs even want the throne? If one thing is clear in the Realm, is that no one wants another scarlet empress.

    What about a forest witch? Theirs is a dream of a wonderful, eternal afterlife.

    And that's just looking at a couple factions.
    That's nothing on the story of a captivating cathak in a quest to rediscover what honor means to him.
    The lost egg that died stopping a devil from destroying his home died a very satisfactory death.

    What of the lookshy taimyo that reforms the seventh legion and reinstates the shogunate across much of the threshold, and then gets to watch first hand its overtaking of the Realm... and retires to rest on those laurels?

    I'm not sure "what is the end game for xxxxxxxxx" is even a valid question if xxxxxxxxx isn't particularly specific.


    • #3
      What isn't the end game for Solars? Heck, what isn't the end game for DBs? I feel like it's dictated mainly by individual character motivations. Maybe this character wants to be a king. Maybe this character just wants to avenge her mom. Maybe this character wants to find new expanses of lore and knowledge.

      Dragonblooded of the Scarlet Empire don't all necessarily want to be the next Empress---even those who would like to be the Empress may not actually be shooting for that goal. You'll probably get a lot who want to rise high in their House, be honored and successful, kick some Anathema butt. They're honestly not inherently less varied than Solars in terms of endgame, it's just that the lore and setting put a lot more structure around them.

      Abyssals: Whom Death Has Called, a PEACH-as-heck attempt to make an Abyssal 3E holdover.

      Where I try to make Artifacts. When I finish them I'll probably post them in the Artifact Workshop thread so people can help me hammer them into shape.


      • #4
        Okay, I'll clarify. It seems to me that the built-in kind of end-game goal for DB's is taking the throne. I know that can vary wildly from game to game. But I fee like that goal is very clearly built in as "The End Game." But there doesn't seem to be anything even remotely like that built in.

        Once again, not saying eveyr DB game - or even every DB - has/should have the goal of taking the throne. But it does seem like that's kind of how their lore is set up. And there isn't an equivalent in the Solar book.

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        • #5
          I honestly don't think that's accurate, even just for Dynasts---I don't really think there's a specific built-in endgame. It might be more true to say that the lore offers a sort of basic, general Dynastic progression of increasing their power, legacy, and influence within their House and the Realm in general. However, that soft endgame, if it exists, isn't as specific as taking the Scarlet Throne.

          Unless you just meant "taking the throne" in a much more general sense of becoming more powerful and influential, I guess.

          Abyssals: Whom Death Has Called, a PEACH-as-heck attempt to make an Abyssal 3E holdover.

          Where I try to make Artifacts. When I finish them I'll probably post them in the Artifact Workshop thread so people can help me hammer them into shape.


          • #6
            I still have to ask: Why?
            The Realm civil war is definitely a looming, large threat, with lots of outlying factors to complicate it, but why "get the throne" seems built-in for you?

            The "built-in" endgame I see is "win/stop the civil war" and its analogues, but I'm not sure how much of an endgame it actually is either. It's just a looming threat that makes you worry about every other looming threat at the same time. It's the tipping point, the verge of a small apocalypse. And that's just the main db faction, there's about as many dbs in other groups.

            And this world? It's the same world for solars. The Realm, big as it is, is a major consideration for everyone that isn't past the very edges of far-off civilization, if at least in the sense that "if they explode we are in the blast radius".
            The Realm, as one of the biggest forces in the game bent on destroying solars whenever they can, are a common antagonist for solars and lunars.

            It's not, I feel, that DBs have a set endgame, but that they built the world around them.


            • #7
              I mean...

              The "default" Solar game is...also about taking the throne. Conquering Creation and forging a new Grand Solar Empire is pretty baseline as Solar games go, often with a side of "we're not power hungry tyrants, really, we're just doing this to get everybody to work together to fight (Insert Big Scary World Ending Doom)."

              So I'm making God-Kicking Boot, an Exalted webcomic, now. Updates on Sundays. Full-color, mediocre but slowly improving art. It's a thing.

              The absence of a monument can, in its own way, be something of a monument also.
              -Roger Zelazny


              • #8
                "Take the throne and rule" is as valid an end game for solars as it is for dragon blooded.

                Might be a different throne, might not.


                • #9
                  So while I think 3rd ed was gone away form the one end for all metaplot (And hurrah for that) i will try to put down some possible ends to a solar game, which focuses nation/creationwide change.
                  The ones i have seen alooted (with a few twitches of my own) to a bit abbriged.

                  Reclamation - Solars save the world all avenger style

                  Take Back what was lost - Topple the Realm and bring back the deliberative from the first age

                  Into a new age - Bring Creation into a new age of technology, new political system and new themes (like steampunk, modern or all the way to future sci-fi)

                  Kill that which can't be killed... again - Defeat the deathlords and forever kill the Neverborn

                  The locust countercrusade - The seal to opens and the locust crusade starts. The solars defeat the crusade and drive their own crusade into auto. Ends up curing Autobot himself.

                  Defeat the dragon - Kukla awakens and is defeated by solars. This fight uses Creation's landscape as kaijus uses Tokyo/other big city.

                  Bend the wyld - The solars take the area around the pole back. Marching further into deeper wyld and making new lands. In the end Creation becomes round and the setting becomes a setting we now more from our real world aka space is made.

                  Regain the Grace of our Father - enter the jade dome in heaven and redeem the solars in the eyes of UCS. That and get the other incarnates away from the celestial x-box.

                  These are just examples.

                  Bouns: On a personal level the fight against the great curse could be campaign goal in it self.


                  • #10
                    I'm sure one common goal for Solar circles is to replace the Empire with something better and rule Creation benevolently, but as others have said, the number of goals for a Solar circle is pretty much infinite.


                    • #11
                      And that's just a set of endgames for "builders". Some people just want to sail into the sunset.


                      • #12
                        I think the setting and lore tend to perhaps push forward certain types of endgames to each splat. The whole "returning rulers" Solars angle makes "take the throne" endgames easy to go for, and "defeat BIG SCARY THING" is pretty heavily reinforced too... but honestly you can do almost anything if the players and ST put their minds to it. If you want to make a Solar Circle who serve a Deathlord because they think that's the best path for their righteous excellence, you totally can (there's even a canon Solar in 2e who does just that).

                        With DBs, there's a a general push for "protect and empower the societal framework that places you on a pedestal, and increase your influence therein". However, it's just as valid to have DBs strike out on their own to forge their own kingdom. In fact, in some ways, it could be even easier; DBs are allowed to be openly Exalted and don't have to worry about people rejecting them out of hand for being Anathema.

                        Abyssals: Whom Death Has Called, a PEACH-as-heck attempt to make an Abyssal 3E holdover.

                        Where I try to make Artifacts. When I finish them I'll probably post them in the Artifact Workshop thread so people can help me hammer them into shape.


                        • #13
                          I was going to chime in... but I think everyone else has covered it. Defeat a big bad or rule a prosperous kingdom* seem like the main goals, but if your PCs' motivation is to become the greatest artist in Creation, then it's likely a rather different endgame.

                          *One key difference I think with 3rd ed, is the focus a little lower, so it's more plausible to rule akingdom as your end goal, rather than rule everykingdom.

                          To give an example, in the fairly long-running 2nd ed game I ran, the game ended with the PCs stopping Walker in Darkness from destroying the world with the Sword of Creation, and being involved in putting the Neverborn to a deeper sleep so that they were no longer ordering the Deathlords to destroy Creation. They also used a sub-system of the Sword (the World-Denying Solipsism Protocol) to mostly (though not entirely) close off Malfeas from Creation, making the Reclamation much harder.

                          In my 3rd ed game (set 25 years later, with most but not all of the same characters), the game ended with the sorcerer-queen ruling a magical mountain kingdom, the Djala warlord controlling the four Djala kingdoms, the Full Moon being decadent king of a desert city, and the Zenith having spread the Cult of the Illuminated and called a conclave of southern Solars to organise the Cult (as Kether Rock had been destroyed and the Cult shattered during those 25 years). Also, most of the neighbouring kingdoms were either their puppets, or too weak to strike at them due to PCs murdering/cursing their rulers.

                          So that's an example of the two main end-games: defeating the Big Bad and saving the world, and ruling your own kingdoms.

                          Of course, the problem is that these aren't really end-goals that... end. Going into retirement ends the story. Becoming king of a country? Well, you've then got to actually rule. Defeating a Big Bad? Well, there's plenty of other Big Bads out there.
                          It's a reasonable place to stop the game of course (which is what I did).

                          But it's not really the end. So now my friend is running a 3rd game with most of the same PCs (not all) as my game, in the same setting. So now we see the sorceress's magical kingdom threatened by Realm invasion, the Djala kingdom facing a severe overpopulation crisis (because the Twilight had given all the Djala doubled lifespans and Exalted Healing), the Cult of the Illuminated being oppressed by the countries whose rulers the PCs murdered, and someone unleashing insane moonsilver eidolons with the memories of the Lunar PC's first-age incarnation.
                          So the circle's end-game here is really back to defeating the Big Bad, this time the Realm rather than Walker in Darkness, as well as a number of... Little Bads?

                          I feel this is possibly relevant:
                          Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 05-09-2018, 10:42 AM.

                          My characters:
                          Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                          Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Synapse View Post
                            And that's just a set of endgames for "builders". Some people just want to sail into the sunset.
                            On a boat so big the it flips flat earth Creation like a disc as it nears the edge of the world. :-P


                            • #15
                              The end game for my Dawn caste Solar was to kick the frakkin’ Realm out of his town so that he could tend his bar in peace. Of course, the world will never let him do that, so he strives to smooth out the bumps around him, but always at his heart he just wants some peace.

                              That’s kind of everybody’s story to some degree. Look at Hawkeye in the Marvel movies. Immanent threats interrupt your plans and have to be dealt with - and some of them go on to have world-shaking consequences which your character may be a big part of - but that doesn’t mean every solar has to want to rule the world.

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