Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Evocations come from exotic materials? Magical materials mostly gate Resonance?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
    Then why exclude Dragon-Blooded, Abyssals, Sidereals, and Liminals from the Resonant effects of Frost Thorn Knuckles?

    Why have the Resonant keyword at all?
    I think there's a pretty significant difference in the amount of scope and possible players of Ice Wolverine Gauntlets versus Combat Mary Poppins. In such cases, I would argue for broader possible use for the second one, as the effects are both more niche and generally a bit weirder. Plenty of people are gonna wanna play Wolverine or something with sickass claws, and those people are probably gonna find it a lot easier to think up Evocations for those claws then the person who wants to use an Umbrella as their combat weapon.

    I think you're trying to get too hard into this and I think if you start examining the minutia of course things are gonna fall apart. Why the Resonant Keyword? For balance reasons and because it creates interesting stories when someone can overcome it or has to work within their limitations. Why specifically make X artifact out of X material? Well the designer and writer wanted to make X artifact out of X Material, so they did, then they designed it in such a way that it fit within reasonable acceptance of a weapon of that type, so the developers okay'd it. There's no secret illuminati of weapons that is discrediting Lunars and trying to steal things from them.

    I think that there can be multiple reasons for why things are done; it can be for balance but it can also be to give the weapon a stronger identity. I actually dislike that Solars are naturally resonant with all materials, personally, because it kind of turns their affinity to weapons into a bland slurry; they're just amazing at using everything, so there's no cool story of a Solar who overcomes their natural inclinations to master a unique weapon, or who works within the boundaries of what weapon they happen to have and have to form a rapport with something that isn't as effective with them. I think balancing both the fun factor of evocations and the idea that some things might be too strong when combined with natural powers can be a tough balancing act, especially when most splats don't have books yet.

    Here I will actually pause and agree with you on one thing; I think it was kind of garbage how Moonsilver was presented in the Core itself. It did not entice me either, and I love Evocations, and even I was like 'what am I supposed to do with this?'. But I think it's also important to remember the people who designed Moonsilver's blurb in the core are not the people currently leading the line, and I found a lot to try and play around with in the Arms Moonsilver blurb. But I will also use this to state that sometimes, I think you get too obsessed with making Lunars perfect, and examining and critiquing every single bit of minutiae that you can wring out of the writers until you find a fracture point and then spiraling that off into these huge discussions about Lunarness and Moonsilverness, and that can probably be a little daunting for writers trying to deal with those aspects and for others.

    Comment


    • #17
      I mean, if you look at Frost-Thorn knuckles evocations, they absolutely scream "Ice monster". Two of them are about surviving extreme cold, which is so deep into Lunar's wheelhouse it's ridiculous, and the rest are all about icy talons carving foes up like a vicious beast.

      This artifact is made of moonsilver because it is absolutely, undeniably LUNAR AS FUCK. It just happens to have a particularly northern slant to it.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Elfive View Post
        I mean, if you look at Frost-Thorn knuckles evocations, they absolutely scream "Ice monster". Two of them are about surviving extreme cold, which is so deep into Lunar's wheelhouse it's ridiculous, and the rest are all about icy talons carving foes up like a vicious beast.

        This artifact is made of moonsilver because it is absolutely, undeniably LUNAR AS FUCK. It just happens to have a particularly northern slant to it.
        I am curious why you think I said the claws aren’t very Lunar or moonsilver? In this thread, I said they are. Especially the two Evocations you mention.

        But can you also justify why Rainwalker includes blue jade and Frost Thorn Knuckles do not?


        Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

        My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

        Comment


        • #19
          I’m out of the house right now and posting on my smartphone. So I’m only going to respond to posts I can instantly tear to pieces.

          If you want to silence me for a while, you’re better off writing posts as large as @Flare’s last one. I’m waiting until I can really read and understand that one.

          But short and thoughtless posts which attack positions I don’t hold are a waste of everyone’s time.


          Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

          My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
            Sorry, Isator, but I find it hard to parse these sentences. Each one is like two unrelated sentences joined together oddly. It seems like you're trying to fit two ideas together but are struggling to express the logical relation.
            ​The first sentence is me suggesting that the Artifact is moonsilver because its personality is primarily about hunting and stuff. It takes on the ice things through that lens as a result of how and where it was made, but the main character of the claws is still focused on the abstract hunting idea.

            ​I would need to look at the Artifact, the write-up for moonsilver, and Rainwalker again to see if that holds up.

            ​I actually agree with the idea that something that is embodying the personality of meteorological phenomena should generally be one of the jades. I still see a difference in Stormcaller and Horizon Cleaver, because the former is more malicious, whereas the latter is more indiscriminate and informed by hard to direct electricity.

            ​Anyway, my second sentence was me saying that I, personally, would have a hard time coming up with a moonsilver Artifact from, say, the South, that uses heat or fire in an analogous manner.


            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
            Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
            https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

            Comment


            • #21
              Honestly Rainwalker seems to be mostly Blue Jade. I think it includes Moonsilver because of the "float around protecting the wielder" ability. That's a moonsilver thing, as seen by Flying Silver Dream.

              Mostly the "protect wielder" bit. Blue jade can handle floating.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                The first sentence is me suggesting that the Artifact is moonsilver because its personality is primarily about hunting and stuff. It takes on the ice things through that lens as a result of how and where it was made, but the main character of the claws is still focused on the abstract hunting idea.
                Thing is, conjuring ice and cold is actually unnecessary for that purpose.

                The claws could be producing an unlimited number of moonsilver metal blades which can be fired as projectiles (which denature into nothingness like Phantom Arrow Technique arrows).

                Stabbing or shooting these blades into prey can nail their feet to the ground (like that one Earth-aspect Thrown Charm) or nail down the arms or clothing of someone who is prone.

                Blades stuck in your prey could give you something to sympathetically track through the wilderness as the blades call to the gauntlets.

                The blades could also worm their way towards the heart, slowly working to kill any prey that manages to escape, or at least soften them up more by the time you find them again.

                The claw attacks could exploit penalties that a victim is suffering from hungry, pain, and freezing cold, as prey would surely suffer when hunted by someone using these claws.

                Similar to an Evocation of the Tusk of Galech-Ma, the claws could change themselves to better pierce the shielding furs and fatty hides and natural magics of prey who resist the cold. Including the Winter Folk that Orphan-Maker opposed.


                Again, don't get me wrong: I like the Frozen-Thorn Knuckles we got. But they should have included blue jade, even if it wasn't allowed to be enough for Dragon-Blooded to resonate with them.

                Shining Ice Mirror and certain warstriders include starmetal, but Sidereals aren't allowed to fully resonate with those, either.


                I would need to look at the Artifact, the write-up for moonsilver, and Rainwalker again to see if that holds up.
                I look forward to your thoughts.


                I actually agree with the idea that something that is embodying the personality of meteorological phenomena should generally be one of the jades.
                I'll concede that "uncontrollable, wide-area, cataclysmic elemental disaster" is an acceptable space for orichalcum.

                But that does go back to my hypothesis that using magical materials to gate certain effects behind Dissonance and Resonance matters more than using magical materials for thematic purposes. Because "cataclysm" gating is effectively less about "orichalcum is powerful" than it is "only Solars are supposed to be this powerful, and no one else fully resonates with orichalcum.

                There's nothing wrong with that, but Arms of the Chosen might not have been as clear or honest about the actual design calculus it as it perhaps should have been.


                I still see a difference in Stormcaller and Horizon Cleaver, because the former is more malicious, whereas the latter is more indiscriminate and informed by hard to direct electricity.
                When malice is applied equally to friend and foe alike, it seems pretty indiscriminate to me.

                If there's any difference I could articulate, it would be that Stormcaller’s and Karvara’s and Gorgon’s demons are people you could socially influence, whereas Horizon Cleaver, Volcano Cutter, and Sea’s Verdict cannot be persuaded and can only be mastered and tamed through martial skill and self-discipline.

                But only Stormcaller is orichalcum, and Gorgon is jade.

                So Stormcaller sits uniquely only at the intersection of "can be persuaded" and "targets friend and foe alike", since Gorgon doesn't go petrifying your allies on its own and Karvara (should it take over during your Limit Break) MIGHT decide to spare your allies if doesn't hate you and sees no way that their deaths would help it escape its prison.


                Anyway, my second sentence was me saying that I, personally, would have a hard time coming up with a moonsilver Artifact from, say, the South, that uses heat or fire in an analogous manner.
                Here's where I prove Elfive wrong about my creativity.

                The burns that Flash-Flame Knuckles mark on their prey produce a pungent smoke that makes them easier to track and also thwarts their ability to enter concealment or make surprise attacks. Flashing attacks with these fiery claws make victims flinch in fear and remembered pain, applying their wound penalties to their Defense.

                Attacks burn away more and more of the victim's flesh, reducing their soak against further attacks.

                Fire Dragon Style uses paired short daiklaves. Paired razor claws are very, very similar. If Fire Dragon Style can encompass raging, two-fisted barrages of cuts and slashes, so can the Flash-Flame Knuckles.

                .
                Last edited by Sunder the Gold; 05-13-2018, 03:43 PM.


                Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                  Thing is, conjuring ice and cold is actually unnecessary for that purpose.
                  ​Does that matter? Given the diverse potential forms for Artifacts as a result of Evocations, letting one go for a thing because it sparked the imagination of the writer, even if there's a conceivable alternate path, is not only acceptable, it's kind of necessary.

                  ​All those other possibilities you're describing? Those are the Evocations of different moonsilver weapons from the North. Perhaps their makers even have rivalries about which one is the best, the same way as Spring Razor relates to other poisonous weapons.

                  Originally posted by Sunder the Gold
                  When malice is applied equally to friend and foe alike, it seems pretty indiscriminate to me.
                  ​Horizon Cleaver is indiscriminate because whether or not its lightning goes astray is a result of random dice rolls.

                  ​Stormcaller wants to attack people regardless of their affiliation to the wielder because it is wilfully violent, and has a capacity to convince its wielder of that view point.

                  ​I would talk more, but am... emotionally tired owing to things that have nothing to do with this thread, and lack the energy. Maybe later.


                  I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                  Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Flare View Post
                    Plenty of people are gonna wanna play Wolverine or something with sickass claws, and those people are probably gonna find it a lot easier to think up Evocations for those claws then the person who wants to use an Umbrella as their combat weapon.
                    I honestly don't understand your point. I don't see how that's relevant to this conversation.


                    Why the Resonant Keyword? For balance reasons
                    So inclusion doesn't override all other concerns, as you seemed to suggest. You agree it's necessary to preserve the intended balance of power.


                    Why specifically make X artifact out of X material? Well the designer and writer wanted to make X artifact out of X Material, so they did, then they designed it in such a way that it fit within reasonable acceptance of a weapon of that type, so the developers okay'd it.
                    Which could mean that Arms of the Chosen would have been better served to talk more about example Exotic Materials and less about the metal materials.


                    There's no secret illuminati of weapons that is discrediting Lunars and trying to steal things from them.
                    Don't go putting words in my mouth.

                    If the Frost-Thorn Knuckles are doing anything, they're stealing from the Dragon-Blooded.

                    I play fair, not favorites.


                    I think you get too obsessed with making Lunars perfect, and examining and critiquing every single bit of minutiae that you can wring out of the writers until you find a fracture point and then spiraling that off into these huge discussions about Lunarness and Moonsilverness, and that can probably be a little daunting for writers trying to deal with those aspects and for others.
                    The Lunar Exalted suffered in the past for a lack of definition. Second Edition piled gimmick after gimmick upon them without ever finding their core.

                    It sounds like Third Edition Lunars finally have a recognized and celebrated core narrative and aesthetic. They and their metal don't need to go borrowing tricks they don't need.

                    As for my current obsession with moonsilver warstriders, one thing that Lunar Exalted paradoxically LACKED in previous editions was a meaningful choice of options.

                    I can be absolutely, totally content that most Lunar Exalted would sneer at the idea of building or piloting a warstrider. But I would be much more comfortable if that denial is actually a CHOICE. If there are actually examples of moonsilver warstriders (beyond the terrifying, double-edged sword of Karvara) that Lunar players can look at and decide not to use.

                    That's radically different from not using them because there's nothing available. That's not a choice.

                    And dammit, maybe sometimes I want to make that choice and play a Lunar mecha pilot in a machine custom-made for Lunar Exalted. Variety is the spice of life.


                    Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                    My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I didn't say you weren't creative, I said you weren't being creative.

                      Like earlier you were all "Hostile environments aren't predatory or lunar." somehow completely missing that the ENTIRE THEME of the frost-thorn knuckles is to personify the hostile northern environment as a metaphorical predator.

                      You can't divorce the non-jade Magical Magical materials from elemental effects because literally everything on creation is supposed to made of the elements and the themes of Jade cover basically all of it.

                      Lunars are survivors who adapt to their environment and you're sat here making threads wondering why an artifact that turns you into a mythical snow beast gives you claws made of ice. If there was a Jade artifact that had those sorts of themes we'd have had threads complaining about how dragon blooded were stealing Lunar's shticks.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                        If there was a Jade artifact that had those sorts of themes we'd have had threads complaining about how dragon blooded were stealing Lunar's shticks.
                        No one's complained that Heartsong should be orichalcum or moonsilver, which could reasonably manipulate people's emotions.

                        No one's complained that Fist of the Titans should be orichalcum, which could reasonably express sheer, unstoppable, hammering power.

                        No one's complained that Summer Thunder should be green jade, which could reasonably enhance horse-mounted archery and -- as evidenced by Daring Venture -- summon allies to fight by your side.

                        No one's complained that Nightmare Shard should be soulsteel, which could reasonably express disease, cruelty, despair, murder, and killing the vibrant possibilities of Wyld creatures.

                        No one's complained that the Distaff should be green jade; silk is organic and Dragonfly emerging from its cocoon could be likened to a flower blossoming from a bud or a bonsai tree growing into the shape dictated by its gardener.


                        The materials have overlap. I may have disagreed about some areas of overlap, but I've never argued that none existed.

                        But Robert Vance himself said that moonsilver isn't icy, and that the exotic materials of Frost-Thorn Knuckles are responsible for its elemental powers.

                        Which means overlap doesn't even matter, because you can ignore a metal's potentials by using the right exotic ingredients.


                        Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                        My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                          TalosX, you should have known better than to push the rule about non-developers responding in the "Ask the Devs" thread. Don't risk punishing the rest of us when you could just as easily have taken the argument outside, like this.

                          After you hit the Quote button, copy the contents and then paste them into a new thread. Even on a smartphone, it's not that hard.
                          I wasn't responding to a question. You had asked a question, and Vance answered it. You then asked another question, which he hasn't gotten around to responding to yet. Instead of waiting patiently for a response, you then made a statement of "this must be what you mean" that had literally nothing to do with what he said. That is when I responded, and attempted to highlight where you'd clearly deviated from his response. I also tried to simplify how a weapon might gain a legend with evocations not themed around just an artifacts magical material. At no point did I respond to a question posed to the Devs. Am I skirting the line a bit, possibly. Its a distinction I'm willing to make.

                          As for punishment, the "Ask the Devs" thread has had a dozen or more people outright try and answer questions, that drew comments from the moderators. Not once did the moderators punish everyone posting in the thread. You're statement that my post, which wasn't a response to a question, will draw a completely different form of punishment effecting everyone is a bit melodramatic.

                          Doesn't that mean that moonsilver's properties are merely a weak suggestion, and that any moonsilver artifact could generate or manipulate any element? Or do anything at all, really.
                          Magic materials provide a solid baseline for the theme of a weapon's evocations. However, the devs have said multiple times that a weapons individual legend will affect evocations as well. I mean, Vance literally just told you that in response to your original question. Perhaps the ice-themed evocations developed due to being crafted in the far north, or for hunting down monsters in the north, or developed due to some theme about Orphan-Maker (of which we know very little). The point being that while the magic material provides a baseline, it is not the sole theme by which evocations are developed. The devs have said this, so it seems odd to me that you're bothering to argue it.

                          The weapon was forged in the North, but you're making assumptions about the hunt which are not supported by the text.

                          First of all, tyrant lizards would not be found in the "uttermost North". Their habitat is "From the jungles to the lower grasslands where they roam". Orphan-Maker needed to head south for that one.

                          Second of all, there's nothing in there about Orphan-Maker "leaving bodies in the snow", either in the process of hunting the beasts she needed to make the weapon, or after she made the weapon. And regarding the hunt to make the weapon, it wouldn't be the cold that killed her prey. Maybe if the text described how Orphan Maker deliberately drove animals into blizzards and then killed them only after they had begun to freeze to death, which would have been very flavorful and thematic.

                          Instead, "leaving frozen corpses behind her" was the work of Orphan-Maker's successor, Cat-Footed Jal, who inherited the fully-formed artifact with its established legend.
                          Do you really believe that all their is of Frost-Thorn Knuckles legend is outline in that small snippet? The Devs had to keep word count down, and therefore couldn't include more then a paragraph or two on each weapon. However, that doesn't mean that Frost-Thorn Knuckles doesn't have a legends that could fill a series of novels!

                          Wait, you think "legend" refers to the stories that other people tell about the weapon's origins, rather than the actual history of its making and career?
                          You seem to be misunderstanding my usage of the term "legend". Perhaps I am at fault for this, though several others in this thread seem to be on the same train of thought as myself. When I say "legend" in the context of artifacts and evocations, I mean the legend internal to the artifact. The Devs have stated before that different wielders of an artifact may unlock entirely different evocations depending on how those wielders use the artifact. They've also said that some artifacts have themes/legends so integral to the artifact, that they're identical across all wielders regardless of their actions. This heavily implies that each weapon has something akin to a personality (we won't get into actual intelligent weapons). Based on how their used, their legend and/or personality can change to some degree.

                          Take "Zelator" as an example. A knight wielding Zelator might have an evocation that buffs a cavalry charging an enemy. However, another wielder of Zelator a century later, might be a foot soldier who stands at the heart of a phalanx. That wielder could very well develop an evocation that buffs foot soldiers when bracing against a charging enemy. However, Zelator will likely always have evocations for destroying evil sorcerers. That's what it was forged to do, it was artifacts core theme. So even if a Yozi-cultist sorcerer manages to acquire Zelator, that theme isn't going to change. Keep in mind, these are merely examples I'm throwing together. It's entirely possible the Devs might go a completely different way with Zelator's canon legend.

                          Ah, but here you inspire me to think of an idea I agree with. I don't know if it's actually what you meant, though.

                          The idea is that the Frost-Thorn Knuckles might NOT have originally produced claws of ice. That might be a power it picked up when Orphan-Maker fought the Winter Folk faeries, and only afterwards developed the potential for Glacial Beast Claw and such.
                          Okay, I'm not trying to be rude or condescending here, but I thought this was obvious. The Devs have said multiple times that each wielder could develop different evocations for the same artifact. I don't believe each artifact has a hundred evocations, and each wielder only gets access to a small portion of it's evocations. So the only clear answer is that each wielder can and does affect the development of an artifacts evocations. How that wielder uses the artifact, the rapport he builds with the artifact, the wielder's themes and abilities. All of these could potentially cause different evocations to develop and/or change.

                          Horizon Cleaver begs to differ.
                          Honestly, I haven't read up on it yet. So I'm loathe to make any comments at this time.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Just to put in my two cents, Arguing about each material's Resonance strikes me as pointless when you can lock certain evocations behind native splat charms anyway.

                            Not to mention that Resonance can be used to allow lower power splats to get really strong effects in certain trees as much as it blocks them in others.

                            As for Solars and not having to overcome the limits of a weapon, I think that Idea comes more from a external problem of "well I have the essence, so I can buy the charm" and the idea that solars get to overcome anything easily because they're Solars. A Solar struggling with when to use stormcaller and trying not to give into the temptations of the Demon can be very compelling, their player might just need to hold themselves back a bit and play up the interaction with the sword in-story.


                            "Life before Death, Strength before Weakness, Journey before Destination."

                            "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves"

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                              I honestly don't understand your point. I don't see how that's relevant to this conversation.
                              I'm saying that when you are making a book, writing an Evocation tree, etc, sometimes you have to consider a much wider swath then a specific weapon. It's relevant because the idea of what a weapon is tempered by and how people are gonna use it is extremely valid in how it's suggested and why it exists. For instance, when I just want to play a basic, no frills martial artist, I find the core very frustrating. The reason for this is because they let the Backers decide the martial arts styles, rather then choosing them personally outside of a few favorites, and it resulted in a series of martial arts that are incredibly specific and niche, and very few that are styles about simple martial arts. We have 3-4 kind of decent styles for just being a Martial Artist (aka someone who studies an esoteric combat style) in Snake, Tiger, White Reaper, and Crane, then we have no less then 3 styles requiring you to have a specific weapon that either can not be used unarmed or are extremely limited unarmed (Single Point, Righteous Devil, Steel Devil), and then we have 4 styles that are esoteric approaches to martial arts relating to stealthy trickery, shouting at people, being a sneaky misdirector, and being a court darling (Ebon Shadow, Silver Voiced, Black Claw, and Dreaming Pearl). The way these have been split up has made it difficult sometimes to imagine just being a normal martial artist instead of one relying on an interpretation of being a martial artist. It's things like this that books have to consider in addition to simple things like 'is this specific martial arts style good?' or 'does this Evocation tree make sense'. After all, even Vance has noted that while he liked Heaven's Ladder Style, he had to take it out because he accepted it fit poorly into the baseline of Exalted he was trying to present, at least for now. These are the things that must be considered, for each individual creation. Wolverine Claws as a weapon of Evocations are probably going to be fairly common, but they're also relatively straight forward; they're good for cutting people up, they make people bleed, they can be used to track people. They're not exactly difficult to figure things out, and people can use the Frost Thorn Knuckles as an example before spinning them out on their own thing. In Exchange, how many people are likely to say 'I want to play Battle Mary Poppins', and want to look for a combat umbrella? I would imagine this amount is much smaller (Admittedly Guardians of the Galaxy 2 has happened since then), and more then that, the possible Evocations for an Umbrella are a lot harder to come up with then a pair of razor claws. I think that some of the ones in Rainwalker are really cool and feel impressed with them, because I couldn't have come up with them. I think by giving it space- and the fact it is not the majority of weapons but rather a specific weapon that's different from what most people would think of as a weapon- you can both show that Creation has strange, unique weapons, and give an example of one that is fun to use for a specific character concept without changing the tone of the whole book.

                              Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                              So inclusion doesn't override all other concerns, as you seemed to suggest. You agree it's necessary to preserve the intended balance of power.
                              I hate this statement to be quite honest. I never have accepted any sort of 'magic bullet' solution or answer to anything. People are complex, and the decisions made are equally complex. I think inclusion is a part of it. I think that power balances are part of it. I also think I'm not the person who wrote these objects, and I think you would be better off discussing such things with them, because I doubt there's any singular, easy answer for things like this, there's a multitude of factors.



                              Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                              Which could mean that Arms of the Chosen would have been better served to talk more about example Exotic Materials and less about the metal materials.
                              Maybe? I don't really know how useful Exotic Materials as a classification is anymore because there's no Ingredient Farming in Craft anymore. I think if you start saying 'this type of Exotic Material gets you this thing' then you start further limiting what can and can not be done. Part of Exalted that's fun is making up your own shit.


                              Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                              Don't go putting words in my mouth.

                              If the Frost-Thorn Knuckles are doing anything, they're stealing from the Dragon-Blooded.

                              I play fair, not favorites.
                              It's not about stuff like specifically this. It's that this is maybe your 4th or 5th topic specifically related to Lunar Weapons and Moonsilver, which shows you are definitely thinking about this a lot. It's not a bad thing to think about it, but it can mean you can end up tearing down things that don't fit into your worldview even when they're accepted. Instead of thinking about why the Frost-Thorn Knuckles DON'T fit into Lunar Magic, why not think about what may have happened to make them do so?


                              Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                              The Lunar Exalted suffered in the past for a lack of definition. Second Edition piled gimmick after gimmick upon them without ever finding their core.

                              It sounds like Third Edition Lunars finally have a recognized and celebrated core narrative and aesthetic. They and their metal don't need to go borrowing tricks they don't need.

                              As for my current obsession with moonsilver warstriders, one thing that Lunar Exalted paradoxically LACKED in previous editions was a meaningful choice of options.

                              I can be absolutely, totally content that most Lunar Exalted would sneer at the idea of building or piloting a warstrider. But I would be much more comfortable if that denial is actually a CHOICE. If there are actually examples of moonsilver warstriders (beyond the terrifying, double-edged sword of Karvara) that Lunar players can look at and decide not to use.

                              That's radically different from not using them because there's nothing available. That's not a choice.

                              And dammit, maybe sometimes I want to make that choice and play a Lunar mecha pilot in a machine custom-made for Lunar Exalted. Variety is the spice of life.
                              I don't really mean your Warstrider thread specifically. I mean just as a general thing. You clearly care a lot about Lunars and that's really cool that you have something you enjoy a lot. No one who has an opinion worth listening to is gonna bash you for having strong feelings about something. But sometimes you can come across as so focused and intent on your lunar beliefs that it can be kind of daunting to even want to suggest or think about something regarding Lunars on the forums, because they don't want to upset you or kick off an argument.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                                But Robert Vance himself said that moonsilver isn't icy, and that the exotic materials of Frost-Thorn Knuckles are responsible for its elemental powers.

                                Which means overlap doesn't even matter, because you can ignore a metal's potentials by using the right exotic ingredients.
                                No, it doesn't get the ice from the moonsilver.

                                What it gets from moonsilver is LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE.

                                The ice stuff is a little thematic quirk that it's legend pulled in. And if legends can't expand the themes of an artifact beyond their material a bit then WHAT'S THE FUCKING POINT OF THEM?

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X