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  • "That's no Dragon-Blooded…"

    Not a dev, but I figured I'd address this and clarify things a bit.

    Originally posted by Sagara View Post
    I think I'm hearing a bit of a disconnect that I wanted to clear up.

    Unless I'm mistaken, the current paradigm is that the average response to "human-looking being with superhuman powers" is going to be "Oh man, this guy can cause massive damage, better watch my steps".
    And I'm putting this in direct opposition to a popular view of that same average response being "By the Dragons, it's not a Prince of the Earth, it has to be one of those horrible Anathema!"
    That second paradigm is not really consistent with the setting as portrayed in any edition; lots of things can appear in a reasonably human guise yet be capable of superhuman feats, all without being Anathema.

    Misbehaving gods and other spirits, God-Blooded, Wyld mutants, and other, stranger things are not categorically Anathema, so a wise mortal, according to the Immaculate Philosophy, will see strange goings-on and go tell the nearest Immaculate monk or Dragon-Blooded, both of whom are better-suited to investigate on whether or not the phenomenon in question is Anathema, and are better-placed to call a Wyld Hunt if it is.

    (Plus, if it just turns out to be an uppity god or escaped demon, it's the Immaculate monks and/or Dragon-Blooded who would be called on to handle it anyway.)

    If every instance of a farmer seeing a man jump straight up onto the roof of a barn in a single bound ended up with a Wyld Hunt called, the sheer number of false positives would stretch the Dragon-Blooded too thin to actually kill any Anathema they did find.
    Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 06-01-2018, 09:00 AM.

  • #2
    I agree. In your example it could be a hopping vampire, an elemental-blood, an elemental (a lot of them look human-esque), a ghost, a sorcerer, a Dragon-blood, an anathema, a demon, a guy who ate a magic peach, a Raksha, a god-blood, etc, etc, etc.
    Hence, as you say, go tell the local Immaculate and let them investigate.

    Three examples of Celestials and what people thought:

    1) The Eclipse-caste sorceress.
    She hardly ever flared, but she did have jet-black skin, strange white veins (due to her viscous firey blood), resisted heat (due to survival charms; she could have resisted cold too, but the game was in the South so it didn't come up) and could actually shoot fire from her hands.
    So people were often unsure what, exactly, she was. Mortals often thought she was a Fire Aspect, or Fire Elemental. Some people thought she was an Elemental-blood. She just told people she was a sorceress, so some assumed she'd pacted with a fire spirit (which she had) and that was where all her powers from (which they were not all from).
    Half the PCs theorised she was a Raksha with an Assumption of Fire.



    2) Prince Meek, son of the Pharoah (not really, he's just married to the Pharaoh's daughter), Chosen of Sukhmet (the local river god).
    As a Night Caste, people rarely see him flare.
    What they do see is how he can plunge his hand into a brazier of flame, how he brought the party's Eclipse back to life by praying to Sukhmet (actually, the Eclipse was just faking with Ebon Shadow style), how he can swim amongst the sacred crocodiles of Sukhmet without being eaten (thanks to Friendship with Animals), how he's incredibly strong and tough, and how he can command demons (mostly by whining at us).
    Clearly, this is all because, as Sukhmet appeared and explained to the people multiple times (sometimes it was Sukhmet, sometimes it was Lunar PCs disguised as Sukhmet), he is the Chosen One of Sukhmet.

    So, if people see Prince Meek do something amazing and supernatural... well, he's the Chosen of Sukhmet, isn't he? He's got Sukhmet-related powers. A scholar would assume he's an Exigent.


    3) My No Moon used to flare frequently, shining his big dark purple anima with a scary owl in, and with a big obvious Caste Mark shining out of his head. Also he'd often shapeshift in front of people and introduce himself as "an Ogre" or "a shapeshifter" or say "I can shapeshift because I have the power of the Moon." And sometimes he'd show off his silver tattoos. Or threaten to eat people's souls. So people pretty quickly figured out he was an anathema.
    Sometimes he flared his Caste Mark in Immaculate monasteries. This made the monks very upset, they felt it was terribly rude.


    So, it's not like people will never think you're an Anathema, if you do very obvious anathema things, like use famously Anathema powers (like shapeshifting) or have a Caste Mark.
    But for things like jumping really high, being really tough, healing diseases, etc, there are lots of other explanations, and a pretty small number of Solars+Lunars across the world (not to mention, until 5 years ago, Solars were basically just an ancient legend, there was like 10 in the whole world).


    "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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    • #3
      I think the dev's mentioned it earlier back that most people are probably going to assume, if they don't know what they're dealing with, that its a god or at the very least they'll end up seeking the input of the local priest or equivalent.

      I mean there are gods out there that look human, or have the ability to look human, so you can't rule them out. Then of course exigents exist and as far as the Immaculate Order is concerned exigents are alright until they step out of line. Of course you also can get around doing blatantly supernatural stuff with "I'm a sorcerer" or claiming to have gotten a boon from one once.

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      • #4
        Yeah, I put that there SPECIFICALLY to debunk the second hypothesis. Some games seem to take the logic that anything the PCs will do that go just slightly off-normal will trigger the FULL ANATHEMA ALERT!!! button.

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        • #5
          I actually imagine there's probably a procedure for verifying whether or not an anathema report is legit even before a response is given. I mean I would not be surprised if some lords on the bad side of a rebellion tried claiming that clearly the populace has been swayed by the foul words of an anathema or that they're using the vile powers of one to push back their own forces, with the hopes that you'll get a Wyld Hunt to show up put down the rebellion and of course give some extra legitimacy to the lord.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
            I actually imagine there's probably a procedure for verifying whether or not an anathema report is legit even before a response is given.
            "Read Intentions" is probably one of them.

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            • #7
              ...And now I'm imagining the poor Monks who are in the really bad books so they get to be the team that goes around to investigate the reports of anathema that are deemed "Not Credible" and end up having to deal with the senile farmer who thinks her cow is an Anathema. And, every time they go out on one of these checks, there's the little voice in the backs of their heads that says "Every one out of 100 of these actually does have an Anethema behind it. And we're a couple of teenage disciples, an astrologer in training, and a guy who can talk to animals. Let's HOPE it's just old man Jenkins again."


              ....

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              • #8
                Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post
                ...And now I'm imagining the poor Monks who are in the really bad books so they get to be the team that goes around to investigate the reports of anathema that are deemed "Not Credible" and end up having to deal with the senile farmer who thinks her cow is an Anathema. And, every time they go out on one of these checks, there's the little voice in the backs of their heads that says "Every one out of 100 of these actually does have an Anethema behind it. And we're a couple of teenage disciples, an astrologer in training, and a guy who can talk to animals. Let's HOPE it's just old man Jenkins again."
                Plot twist - the senile farmer is entirely correct! His cow has been spying on the realm for years.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post
                  ...And now I'm imagining the poor Monks who are in the really bad books so they get to be the team that goes around to investigate the reports of anathema that are deemed "Not Credible" and end up having to deal with the senile farmer who thinks her cow is an Anathema. And, every time they go out on one of these checks, there's the little voice in the backs of their heads that says "Every one out of 100 of these actually does have an Anethema behind it. And we're a couple of teenage disciples, an astrologer in training, and a guy who can talk to animals. Let's HOPE it's just old man Jenkins again."

                  Now there's a fantastic campaign idea if I ever saw one!


                  Evocations for the demonic tattoos gained from the Pact with Mara sorcerous initiation || Pyre-Kindler (Soulsteel and Red Jade Grimscythe, Artifact 3) || Tenebrous Descent (Stormcaller's Black Jade Reaver Daiklave cousin, Artifact 5)
                  Advice for running the corebook shikari antagonists

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post
                    ...And now I'm imagining the poor Monks who are in the really bad books so they get to be the team that goes around to investigate the reports of anathema that are deemed "Not Credible" and end up having to deal with the senile farmer who thinks her cow is an Anathema. And, every time they go out on one of these checks, there's the little voice in the backs of their heads that says "Every one out of 100 of these actually does have an Anethema behind it. And we're a couple of teenage disciples, an astrologer in training, and a guy who can talk to animals. Let's HOPE it's just old man Jenkins again."
                    That would be such an awesome idea for a campaign. You keep running into strange things that people report are anathema, or at least go to a spot and find absolutely no basis for the claim, but there’s still a spot of trouble that you can clear up, and very very seldom, maybe even only once, this absurdly non-credible claim turnes out to be totally true.

                    Like maybe some guy who simple calls himself “the anathema” has been spotted roaming around with a good-foil circle glued to his forehead. He’s got a little group of 2-3 disciples who shine mirrors at him to make him glow like the sun with what he claims is his anima, but it turns out that yeah, he’s just a crazy solar.

                    Ninja’d by one second!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
                      Like maybe some guy who simple calls himself “the anathema” has been spotted roaming around with a good-foil circle glued to his forehead. He’s got a little group of 2-3 disciples who shine mirrors at him to make him glow like the sun with what he claims is his anima
                      This is amazing.


                      Evocations for the demonic tattoos gained from the Pact with Mara sorcerous initiation || Pyre-Kindler (Soulsteel and Red Jade Grimscythe, Artifact 3) || Tenebrous Descent (Stormcaller's Black Jade Reaver Daiklave cousin, Artifact 5)
                      Advice for running the corebook shikari antagonists

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post
                        end up having to deal with the senile farmer who thinks her cow is an Anathema.
                        [deleted] Nope, I've decided for a more direct statement.

                        ​I dislike the image of dementia being invoked like this; it's a serious neurological condition, and using it as a basis for treating the elderly as though they were a joke has a very ugly history.
                        Last edited by Isator Levi; 06-02-2018, 10:43 AM.


                        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                        Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                        https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                        • #13
                          In an aside only tangentially related - has anyone ever thrown chosen of the dragons transcending their form into moon-sized threats or somesuch in their games?
                          Topic title got stupid images in my mind i guess.

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                          • #14
                            So, does anybody have an interesting story in which their characters encountered a community that ended up sending their priest up to sound the group out?


                            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                            Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                            https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                              [deleted] Nope, I've decided for a more direct statement.

                              ​I dislike the image of dementia being invoked like this; it's a serious neurological condition, and using it as a basis for treating the elderly as though they were a joke has a very ugly history.
                              I apologize. I intentionally said "Not Credible" rather than anything else because I was trying to get away from doing that sort of thing....and then went and did that sort of thing.


                              ....

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