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E2 - Was the Gem of Immortality an innovation of the last years of the High FA?

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  • E2 - Was the Gem of Immortality an innovation of the last years of the High FA?

    Much of the setting of the Lands of Creation book feels like it revolves around the Exalted being still mortal and racing against a clock. I can hand wave Peaches of Immortality having the effects that they do by their effects being the result of a Working, but what about the Gem of Immortality? Were they a discovery of the final days of the Solar Deliberative?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Mercurial View Post
    I can hand wave Peaches of Immortality having the effects that they do by their effects being the result of a Working...
    Yeah, but why do that?

    Originally posted by Mercurial View Post
    ...but what about the Gem of Immortality? Were they a discovery of the final days of the Solar Deliberative?
    Or, and bear with me here, maybe the Exalt (not necessarily a Solar, mind) who discovered immortality didn't deign to share the details with her peers?

    Or perhaps they did know about it, but making them took a bit more than the rules presently call for; perhaps a manse that generates a Gem of Immortality has to have the Maintenance flaw, in the form of having to be watered with Solar blood every fifty years to stay working, and thus possessing one was a tad suspect?

    ​Or maybe the Solars knew it existed, but there could only be one of them at a time, and none of the characters we see are the one who has it?

    Or perhaps the Solars of the time didn't trust their immortality to a mere stone that they'd have to keep on their person/socketed into one of their artifacts at all times?

    ​Or maybe it's just a sign that the Gem of Immortality shouldn't have been written into the setting.
    Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 06-21-2018, 02:26 PM.

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    • #3
      All good ideas, but I like the idea of relatively easily manufactured Immortality for all DBs who pledge themselves to your Solar. You have to start your new Gentes somehow. Perhaps the Manse was one of those special creations that required truly unique components to create, such as those Essence Pearls that you need a mortal to commit their entire Essence pool into an oyster created with Craft Genesis and the only way to create new ones is by finding a surviving colony of those oysters and have a mortal permanently sacrifice his or her ability to channel essence.
      Last edited by Mercurial; 06-23-2018, 01:36 AM.

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      • #4
        I see that gem as a bit of a difficult priority to stick to. It's a high level hearthstone that won't do the owner any good until they reach advanced age. So why get one early, when other hearthstones of comparable power are more likely to help you reach that advanced age at all? And then, when you are at that age...then you may not want to lose any of the stones you have to rebuild a manse to make a gem of immortality, or maybe you just have nowhere to do it.

        The stone exists, sure, but it's hardly the only powerful hearthstone worth chasing, so not everyone will.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by BjornTheFellhanded View Post
          I see that gem as a bit of a difficult priority to stick to. It's a high level hearthstone that won't do the owner any good until they reach advanced age. So why get one early, when other hearthstones of comparable power are more likely to help you reach that advanced age at all? And then, when you are at that age...then you may not want to lose any of the stones you have to rebuild a manse to make a gem of immortality, or maybe you just have nowhere to do it.

          The stone exists, sure, but it's hardly the only powerful hearthstone worth chasing, so not everyone will.
          The stone isn’t for Celestials, they still have Peaches of Immortality which they can secure access to reliably. The Stone is there for DBs, or maybe Dragon Kings and Jade Folk Artisans. People who are valuable, possibly leaders, and you want to win to your side and then keep them around forever.
          Last edited by Mercurial; 06-23-2018, 01:34 AM.

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          • #6
            I would imagine that the stone was engineered for far more often during the Shogunate than during the High First Age, for the reasons you mentioned.

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            • #7
              It’s a good idea, but you’d have to tell people playing mid-First Age games that the Stone of Immortality is off the table as a Hearthstone choice, and that never flies.

              (See also: “The Solar Charm set has reached its utter peak of efficiency through years of new Charm development throughout the First Age” getting effectively retconned as soon as people realized it meant Primordial War game Solars would need a shittier set.)
              Last edited by Stephen Lea Sheppard; 06-22-2018, 01:47 AM.

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              • #8
                This is the great thing about Wild-Born hearthstones in 3e. You can take any effect you want and not break the game by making it one-of-a-kind and totally unreproducible.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mercurial View Post

                  The stone isn’t for Celestials, they still have Peaches or Immortality which they can secure access to reliably. The Stone is there for DBs, or maybe Dragon Kings and Jade Folk Artisans. People who are valuable, possibly leaders, and you want to win to your side and then keep them around forever.
                  Considering the effort it would take to produce even a single stone (no, it wouldn't be trivial even for the more powerful Solars) there would always be way too many people you might want to give it to than you'd have stones. Which means, you'd have to make choices.Choices that would also have negative consequences, because you'd be forced to pass some important supporters in favour of others, thust creating seeds of strife and discontentment. Besides, with a heavily limited supply you might end up giving the stone to someone else. Say, a lover. Or a halfcaste child. Or keep it for yourself just in case.

                  Basically, it's the whole assumption of an existence of "relatively easily manufactured Immortality" that is faulty here. There's nothing even remotely suggesting that it would be easy, or even "relatively easy".

                  Last edited by Astralporing; 06-22-2018, 09:52 AM.



                  The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.

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                  • #10
                    Indeed, a manse-rating-of-five, earth-aspected hearthstone is not "relatively easily manufactured" by any metric.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Greyman View Post
                      Indeed, a manse-rating-of-five, earth-aspected hearthstone is not "relatively easily manufactured" by any metric.
                      I may be overstating the ease by which a Solar could Wyld Shape a Demesne and then Wyld Shape the materials and workers to build the Manse after you design it.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mercurial View Post
                        I may be overstating the ease by which a Solar could Wyld Shape a Demesne and then Wyld Shape the materials and workers to build the Manse after you design it.
                        Which might be what most Solars did back in the FA. Which means those Manses and Hearthstones were destroyed as the area was reclaimed into the Wyld.

                        So maybe there were several thousands of them back then, but the population was in the billions.

                        Also, there is nothing that says the knowledge of how one is made survived both the Usurpation and the Great Contagion. There might have been both Lunars and Sidereals that knew how to build that kind of Manse, but they might not have survived or shared their knowledge.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stephen Lea Sheppard View Post
                          (See also: “The Solar Charm set has reached its utter peak of efficiency through years of new Charm development throughout the First Age” getting effectively retconned as soon as people realized it meant Primordial War game Solars would need a shittier set.)
                          That would have been hilarious, though! Immunity to Some Things Technique. Two Shadows Evasion. Hill-Crossing Leap Technique. Ready in Three Directions Stance.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Aquillion View Post
                            That would have been hilarious, though! Immunity to Some Things Technique. Two Shadows Evasion. Hill-Crossing Leap Technique. Ready in Three Directions Stance.
                            If I had all the time in the world, and were more mechanically inclined, "Shittier sets for all the Exalt types for First Age games" is one of those jokes that works the best if you follow through with it to its absurd, overwrought conclusion. Alas, I do not have all the time in the world, and am not particularly mechanically inclined.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Stephen Lea Sheppard View Post

                              If I had all the time in the world, and were more mechanically inclined, "Shittier sets for all the Exalt types for First Age games" is one of those jokes that works the best if you follow through with it to its absurd, overwrought conclusion. Alas, I do not have all the time in the world, and am not particularly mechanically inclined.
                              Horses Almost Never Fly Approach
                              Cost: 1m; Mins: Ride 5, Essence 3
                              Type: Reflexive
                              Keywords: None
                              Duration: One turn
                              Prerequisite Charms: Coursing Firebolt Sparkle
                              The Solar whispers in her mount's ear, convincing it that the impossible has been known to happen. When she attempts to ride over water, clouds, an open gap above a chasm, or similar, she rolls (her mount's current temporary Willpower). As long as it receives one success, she is able to complete the movement; on a failed roll, both her and her mount fall, and her mount loses a point of Willpower.


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