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E2 - Was the Gem of Immortality an innovation of the last years of the High FA?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
    Horses Almost Never Fly Approach
    Cost: 1m; Mins: Ride 5, Essence 3
    Type: Reflexive
    Keywords: None
    Duration: One turn
    Prerequisite Charms: Coursing Firebolt Sparkle
    The Solar whispers in her mount's ear, convincing it that the impossible has been known to happen. When she attempts to ride over water, clouds, an open gap above a chasm, or similar, she rolls (her mount's current temporary Willpower). As long as it receives one success, she is able to complete the movement; on a failed roll, both her and her mount fall, and her mount loses a point of Willpower.
    Wait, no, what have you done?! Since you're the Ex3 developer, this charm is now canon.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Stephen Lea Sheppard View Post

      If I had all the time in the world, and were more mechanically inclined, "Shittier sets for all the Exalt types for First Age games" is one of those jokes that works the best if you follow through with it to its absurd, overwrought conclusion. Alas, I do not have all the time in the world, and am not particularly mechanically inclined.
      Shouldn't the current charmset be shittier by that metric, since (outside fo past life memories) the progress the exalted made in the first age has been largely forgotten.

      That said I think "progress" is better expressed through advanced artifacts or the like, not better innate powers.


      My Mage 2e Homebrew

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Flinty View Post

        Shouldn't the current charmset be shittier by that metric, since (outside fo past life memories) the progress the exalted made in the first age has been largely forgotten.

        That said I think "progress" is better expressed through advanced artifacts or the like, not better innate powers.
        The First Edition corebook, in the sidebar on custom Charms, said "No you can't just make a custom version of an existing Charm with a lower mote cost; the Charms currently in use by the Exalted were honed to the absolute limit of efficiency over the millennia of the First Age; if you want to make a custom Charm, it has to be meaningfully different from an existing Charm." Or some such. And it's obviously just something being said to discourage "I want to remake Excellent Strike but cheaper," but it also established that the Exalted of the early First Age must have had shittier Charmsets.

        Presumably the increased efficiency of modern Charms are transmitted through the memories of the Exaltation.

        (Then we wrote Dreams of the First Age and wanted to present the whole scope of First Age history as playable, at which point... no. Out that concept went!)

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Stephen Lea Sheppard View Post

          The First Edition corebook, in the sidebar on custom Charms, said "No you can't just make a custom version of an existing Charm with a lower mote cost; the Charms currently in use by the Exalted were honed to the absolute limit of efficiency over the millennia of the First Age; if you want to make a custom Charm, it has to be meaningfully different from an existing Charm." Or some such. And it's obviously just something being said to discourage "I want to remake Excellent Strike but cheaper," but it also established that the Exalted of the early First Age must have had shittier Charmsets.
          To be fair, it isn't like Geoff knew what he was midwifing when the 1e core was being written.

          I think back then there was less concept of the Charmset being native, techniques that were fundamentally inherent to your Exaltation and expressions of that power. They were more clearly widgets, things you learned how to do like shooting a three-pointer or popping a wheelie or doing a kickflip, which meant that presumably you could get "better" at them with practice; you'd train and train and train with Excellent Strike a thousand times a day and eventually be able to execute it with less effort (motes) than someone who just learned it.

          So establishing "yeah, you're not the first person to have this idea; the Solars ruled as god-kings for centuries and have already optimized their magic as best they can, and you've inherited their learnings" wasn't a bad idea in that context.

          Later on, the notion that the native Charmsets were more akin to "this is part of being an Exalt" rather than "this is a thing an Exalt can do" took hold, especially after the Sidereals got their closed Charmset that is intimately tied to their natures as the Chosen of the Maidens. Under that mindset, you can just say "your native Charmset is as good as it gets; it is an integral part of you, your inherent magic. Any specific Charm can't really get 'better' on its own."


          "SEX NOVA is the kind of person who, after being chosen as the divine champion of the god of heroes, decided to call himself SEX NOVA."

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          • #20
            It was either said about the Scarlet Empress or First Age Solars, but a developer once floated the point that for somebody that is anxious about their mortality, a hearthstone isn't entirely a relief from that, because of the need to maintain proximity to the stone and maintenance of the manse, and how those things can be lost, stolen or destroyed.

            (Watch this space for my possibly extensive rant for how weak immortality feels as a motivating factor for people that already live incomprehensibly long amounts of time)


            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
            Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
            https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
              It was either said about the Scarlet Empress or First Age Solars, but a developer once floated the point that for somebody that is anxious about their mortality, a hearthstone isn't entirely a relief from that, because of the need to maintain proximity to the stone and maintenance of the manse, and how those things can be lost, stolen or destroyed.

              (Watch this space for my possibly extensive rant for how weak immortality feels as a motivating factor for people that already live incomprehensibly long amounts of time)
              Point. I mean, it's been roughly 5k years or so since the Primordial War, yes? Discounting anagathics and premature death (in other words, in a thoroughly hypothetical scenario) that's two or so generations of Solars, and one of Sidereals. IMO, by far the best and most interesting use of immortality macguffins is as something a celestial exalt goes on a quest or mission for for the sake of someone else - a mortal lover, a beloved lieutenant, a Terrestrial friend, a Circlemate cursed by an Abyssal/Deathlord/whatever to age at an increased rate and so on.


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              • #22
                Originally posted by BjornTheFellhanded View Post
                I see that gem as a bit of a difficult priority to stick to. It's a high level hearthstone that won't do the owner any good until they reach advanced age. So why get one early, when other hearthstones of comparable power are more likely to help you reach that advanced age at all? And then, when you are at that age...then you may not want to lose any of the stones you have to rebuild a manse to make a gem of immortality, or maybe you just have nowhere to do it.

                The stone exists, sure, but it's hardly the only powerful hearthstone worth chasing, so not everyone will.
                This is why I’m designing my magical cooking pot to have the power to produce Age-Staving Cordials from common materials at a rate of one-per-week.

                Sure, you could theoretically produce enough anagathic to prolong someone’s life 25% for next to nothing in material costs...

                But that means you can’t use the pot to produce anything else, and it can produce medicines and ointments of much more immediate power.

                (All concoctions lose potency shortly after being poured from the pot, unless you commit motes to keep the dose’s freshness sealed. This caps your ability to stockpile cheaply-produced magical medicines.)


                Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by ajf115 View Post

                  Point. I mean, it's been roughly 5k years or so since the Primordial War, yes? Discounting anagathics and premature death (in other words, in a thoroughly hypothetical scenario) that's two or so generations of Solars, and one of Sidereals. IMO, by far the best and most interesting use of immortality macguffins is as something a celestial exalt goes on a quest or mission for for the sake of someone else - a mortal lover, a beloved lieutenant, a Terrestrial friend, a Circlemate cursed by an Abyssal/Deathlord/whatever to age at an increased rate and so on.
                  Exactly. That's the kind of thing in which it sounds like it could be more fun, because the stakes can feel more immediate, and it's a bit more plausible for the effects to be seen in the course of an actual story. Certainly, it's a thing that figures into narrative surrounding a number of gods and the like.

                  It feels to me as though when you're somebody who can naturally live to be around 3,000 years old, actually becoming capable of living indefinitely (or extending it to something even more ridiculously incomprehensible, like 50,000 years) is the kind of thing where it would take ages for it to even stand out.


                  I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                  Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                  • #24
                    There's already an artifact in 3e that lets you live forever with minimal effort, anyway. (Well, minimal effort once you have it.) Since it produces Peaches of Immortality, even having it stolen doesn't mean much because you have your entire natural lifespan to get it back or find something to replace it with.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Aquillion View Post
                      There's already an artifact in 3e that lets you live forever with minimal effort, anyway.
                      Anyway what? Was anybody arguing that there wasn't? This feels like a bit of a non-sequitur.

                      Besides, you need to be Essence 5 and resonant with starmetal before Gnomon will make peaches of immortality for you.

                      Originally posted by Aquillion
                      Since it produces Peaches of Immortality, even having it stolen doesn't mean much because you have your entire natural lifespan to get it back or find something to replace it with.
                      Speaking of, can somebody remind me if the gem of immortality is described in a manner suggesting that your aging freezes in a manner, or that you just don't feel your years. Say a Dragon Blood has had one since they were twenty, and has lived to a thousand before it is rendered moot; are we assuming that they resume aging towards their three hundred years from the day that the gem was acquired, or do they drop dead immediately?


                      I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                      Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                      https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

                      Comment

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