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Alchemicals and 3E

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  • #16
    Demiurge kind of actually works fine in the 3e context, since well, Autochton can just choose people to do the thing for him. It actually more or less is the same, just needing less explanation. (They're guided by divine inspiration, etc.)


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    • #17
      I would presume that a lot of crafting options that might otherwise entail sorcery or other supernatural power might be covered by the manufacturing taking place inside of a Municipal Charm.

      Autochthonia might have need for a wider implementation of magical artifice than Creation, but I feel as though it maybe ought to be less than one might think; that a lot of the amenities of people's daily lives might not depend on it. Indoor plumbing, for instance. Possibly even their lifts.

      At the moment, I feel as though if it's something that members of the Populat were supposed to manufacture or perform regular maintenance on, then it wasn't magical (even if it's maybe dependent on something that the Sodalites needed to make and maintain to work).


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      • #18
        Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
        I would presume that a lot of crafting options that might otherwise entail sorcery or other supernatural power might be covered by the manufacturing taking place inside of a Municipal Charm.

        Autochthonia might have need for a wider implementation of magical artifice than Creation, but I feel as though it maybe ought to be less than one might think; that a lot of the amenities of people's daily lives might not depend on it. Indoor plumbing, for instance. Possibly even their lifts.

        At the moment, I feel as though if it's something that members of the Populat were supposed to manufacture or perform regular maintenance on, then it wasn't magical (even if it's maybe dependent on something that the Sodalites needed to make and maintain to work).
        Or, it's entirely possible that a lot of the stuff is, on its own, completely mundane. It ceases to be mundane only if it gets coupled into a municipal charm, or a part of natural Autochthon infrastructure. That would of course require a much higher level of constant maintenance than an artifact creation would, but that would perfectly fit with Autochthonia themes.



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        • #19
          My preference for Alchemical aesthetic is that I'd like the to have more immediate brand recognition within Autochthonia and some culling of magitech is necessary for that, if power armoured regulators are a thing it makes the arrival of Terrible Adjudicator of Law a lot less impactful.

          I thought that the industrial elementals were pretty superfluous last edition and that they were cutting an underrepresented category of spirits in half. But this time around I’m wondering if some of them (particularly some varieties of metal elemental) could stand in for vehicles.


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          • #20
            Originally posted by Lioness View Post
            My preference for Alchemical aesthetic is that I'd like the to have more immediate brand recognition within Autochthonia and some culling of magitech is necessary for that, if power armoured regulators are a thing it makes the arrival of Terrible Adjudicator of Law a lot less impactful.
            Not really. Power armor was never capable of replacing an exalt. In fact, it makes it more impactful because a bunch of regulators just got beaten or killed by something terrible with power armor. This would only amplify the severity of the threat in terms of drama. Simply because power armor exists doesn't mean it ever trivialized threats.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
              Not really. Power armor was never capable of replacing an exalt. In fact, it makes it more impactful because a bunch of regulators just got beaten or killed by something terrible with power armor. This would only amplify the severity of the threat in terms of drama. Simply because power armor exists doesn't mean it ever trivialized threats.
              Do you not think that she's talking about a visual element, person?


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              • #22
                Originally posted by Lioness View Post
                I thought that the industrial elementals were pretty superfluous last edition and that they were cutting an underrepresented category of spirits in half. But this time around I’m wondering if some of them (particularly some varieties of metal elemental) could stand in for vehicles.
                I always felt that the elementals of Autochthon gave a unique flavor to the setting. They also kinda needed to be there in part. It makes sense that Autochthonian sorcerers can summon elementals, but it also makes sense that these would be distinct from the elementals of creation. Plus water and clean air would be simplicity itself to procure if you could summon up creation elementals easily.

                Edit: Riding around on metal elementals does sound pretty dang cool though. You just need a really sturdy saddle/cockpit to avoid the otherwise inevitable saddle-sores.
                Last edited by armyofwhispers; 07-16-2018, 11:53 AM.


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                • #23
                  Originally posted by armyofwhispers View Post
                  Plus water and clean air would be simplicity itself to procure if you could summon up creation elementals easily.
                  We don't really know how easy or difficult that would be with steam elementals because we only have Dreselles as an example of their capabilities. That kind of epitomises a major problem I’ve had with the Autochthonian Elementals. Personally I think we should embrace overlap like what exists with Weaving and Sorcery and say that some species exist in both worlds.


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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Astralporing View Post
                    Or, it's entirely possible that a lot of the stuff is, on its own, completely mundane.
                    This is a good point. I think Autochthonia should be shown to have a higher "mundane" technology level compared to Creation, in addition to magical. Obviously, there's already some of that being shown, what with things like repeating crossbows being common tech, but it could stand to be pointed out more often, I think. Things like mentioning that non-Metropolis Autochthonian settlements still have things like indoor plumbing, air conditioning, and such, is what I'm picturing. Overall, I picture Autochthonian technology at being roughly the Victorian period of Earth, but with some "missing" bits (no firearms, for example), and some "advanced" parts (primarily involving electricity). I think the technology is more well-distributed to Autochthonians than the equivalent time in Earth's history, however - the Populat has more access and benefits more from the Industrial Revolution-level technology than the average common person would in, say, Victorian London.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post

                      This is a good point. I think Autochthonia should be shown to have a higher "mundane" technology level compared to Creation, in addition to magical. Obviously, there's already some of that being shown, what with things like repeating crossbows being common tech, but it could stand to be pointed out more often, I think. Things like mentioning that non-Metropolis Autochthonian settlements still have things like indoor plumbing, air conditioning, and such, is what I'm picturing. Overall, I picture Autochthonian technology at being roughly the Victorian period of Earth, but with some "missing" bits (no firearms, for example), and some "advanced" parts (primarily involving electricity). I think the technology is more well-distributed to Autochthonians than the equivalent time in Earth's history, however - the Populat has more access and benefits more from the Industrial Revolution-level technology than the average common person would in, say, Victorian London.
                      Honestly, if there were a place in Exalted for firearms, it would be Autochthonia. It's a self-contained sub-setting that's completely optional, has an industrial look, and is supposed to feel very different from Creation. EX3 also doesn't have the complex about crossbows that past editions did, where something that managed a repeating, magazine-fed design during the 2nd century CE was presented as a weird idea no one had ever considered before.

                      I'd still expect something from out of Kabaneri of the Iron Fortress and not modern or archaic firearms, though. The Machine God loves his Steam.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                        Do you not think that she's talking about a visual element, person?
                        How is a scene of a bunch of regulars who got completely destroyed in powerarmor capable of detracting of an alchemical? How do they not accentuating him when supporting him in battle? You cannot confuse people in power armor with an alchemical unless you've never heard of them. I've always been fond of "magitech" and Autochthonia was always interesting as an industrial/magic hybrid. I don't see why you should lose the flavor of that.
                        Last edited by Epimetheus; 07-17-2018, 02:01 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post
                          Honestly, if there were a place in Exalted for firearms, it would be Autochthonia. It's a self-contained sub-setting that's completely optional, has an industrial look, and is supposed to feel very different from Creation.
                          I'd agree, except that I still think Autochthonia is intended primarily as an "invader" to Creation - its status as its own place for adventure, completely separate from Creation, is still secondary, I think. And means that the tech gap has to be somewhat constrained. While I know that guns aren't actually the miraculous automatic war-winning weapons that history has sometimes portrayed them as, it still feels to me like giving the Autochthonians firearms, at least firearms more advanced than the flintlock/wheellock level, is just too big of a gap.

                          If you want some justification for Autochthonians not having firearms, I'd suggest saying that they can technically produce them, but the precursor chemicals to gunpowder simply aren't conveniently available in large quantities in Autochthonia, or have other uses more important to Autochthonian industry more important than weapons.

                          Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist
                          EX3 also doesn't have the complex about crossbows that past editions did, where something that managed a repeating, magazine-fed design during the 2nd century CE was presented as a weird idea no one had ever considered before.
                          Note that the Chinese repeating crossbow design (I assume that's what you're referring to) was actually quite weak by crossbow standards - each shot had to be powered by one or two turns of the crank, effectively, which limited the amount of energy each shot actually had. Compare that to a late-medieval European heavy crossbow, where each shot was being powered by many turns of a crank, and probably each turn was inputting more energy as well. I've always assumed that Autochthonian repeating crossbows have power levels more comparable to the latter with each shot, using some kind of mechanism to effectively store the energy of multiple full-powered crossbow shots, and the "repeating" mechanism is just a matter of switching this stored power out. It would be a horrible job to reload an Autochthonian repeating crossbow, I would think.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

                            Honestly, if there were a place in Exalted for firearms, it would be Autochthonia. It's a self-contained sub-setting that's completely optional, has an industrial look, and is supposed to feel very different from Creation.
                            Using slugthrowers in Autochthonia might be disfavored for the same reason they might be disfavored in hard sci-fi settings in space; you live somewhere where a stray shot puncturing something important could have immensely deleterious consequences. In space, that's explosive decompression, in Autochthonia, it's "that conduit, once punctured, will spray high-pressure boiling oil into the corridor."

                            If I were designing weapons in Autochthonia a big priority for me would be "kills fleshy humans, has as limited as possible a chance of damaging the Polis or the Maker if I miss when aiming at the fleshy humans." Obviously armor complicates that, of course.

                            EX3 also doesn't have the complex about crossbows that past editions did, where something that managed a repeating, magazine-fed design during the 2nd century CE was presented as a weird idea no one had ever considered before.
                            The primary advantage of a crossbow isn't repeating fire or even stopping power.

                            It's that training someone to full proficiency with a longbow is the work of most of a decade, whereas you can do it in a couple months with a crossbow.

                            The main advantage the Autochthonians have over the people of Creation when it comes to a clash of cultures isn't primarily technological; it is primarily logistical. It is, in fact, the same advantage the Realm has. Autochthonia has nation-states and nationalism. Autochthonia has Exalted who serve those states. Autochthonia has professionalized soldiers who serve those states and pursue war as a technical vocation rather than part of a complex web of feudal obligations. Authochthonia has institutions and infrastructure designed to support all of the above.

                            That's the Realm, and to a lesser extent Lookshy and a tiny handful of other polities. Forget the technology; it isn't unimportant, especially for the aesthetics, but it's a bit of a flashy distraction when it comes to Autochthonia. It's the culture, the people, the politics.



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                            • #29
                              Nah, see THIS is an autochthonian crossbow:

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                              • #30
                                I think a big thing about Autcothonia is that a lot of its technology, even mundane stuff, probably is built on things kind of unique to Autochthonia. It's easier ot have indoor plumbing and waste facilities when you can just kind of build pipes to a naturally-formed incinerator, and it's easier to have electrical lighting when you have literal live wire canyons and such.

                                I think that's a big thing too. Alot of stuff Autocthonia has that's more advanced than Creation is that way to us, but probably still pretty primitive or poorly understood or works on prinicples which facilitate their advanced properties in ways we don't have. So things like plastics, for example, I see being pretty common in Autochtonia, but it's because oil is a literal element and they probably can do stuff with that substance that just isn't available in Creation in quantities like Autochthonia does.


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