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Alchemicals and 3E

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  • #46
    My biggest problem with Alchemicals in 2e and what I hope is fixed in 3e (if they even show up) was the fact that RoboCancer(TM) was only fixable by Solars. Which means that EVERY single Alchemicals/Autochthonia game boils down to "get into Creation and find the Solars to fix Autochthon" or "Play a game inside Autochthonia with the players knowing out-of-game that their characters are powerless to save their god and are hurtling endlessly towards the void" and like, fuck, why would I play an Alchemical knowing that my character is basically either worthless or just a conduit to get Solars into my homeworld?

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    • #47
      ...Yeah, I can see that sailing over the horizon already.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Frostav View Post
        My biggest problem with Alchemicals in 2e and what I hope is fixed in 3e (if they even show up) was the fact that RoboCancer(TM) was only fixable by Solars. Which means that EVERY single Alchemicals/Autochthonia game boils down to "get into Creation and find the Solars to fix Autochthon" or "Play a game inside Autochthonia with the players knowing out-of-game that their characters are powerless to save their god and are hurtling endlessly towards the void" and like, fuck, why would I play an Alchemical knowing that my character is basically either worthless or just a conduit to get Solars into my homeworld?
        Even in 2E we had the conceit that the Alchemical cities were vital to the continued survival of the Machine God.

        A big push was to go to creation to get materials and maybe catch some wyld to inject life back into Autobot, but considering that it was to flee the solars that he went into exile in the first place? I doubt there'll be any semblance of 'inject solars, fix all problems' for 3E.

        Not saying you're wrong, but I wouldn't worry about it too much this time around. If we ever get there that is.


        Check out my homebrew exalt: The Fabulists - Chosen of the Raksha here

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        • #49
          The Compass book introduced variations. You can't cure the disease, but you can treat it repeatedly forever.

          Goes for a lot with Solars ;not winning absolutely is not losing.


          I have approximate knowledge of many things.
          Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
          https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Frostav View Post
            …the fact that RoboCancer(TM) was only fixable by Solars.
            And once again, I feel compelled to say that just because a thing didn't have discrete mechanics for doing specifically that one thing, doesn't mean that it can't be done at all.

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            • #51
              I have to admit, I really hope the Creation/Alchemical connect is played down to the point that "here are some ideas, but our assumption is that Autobot never comes back."

              Why?

              The more you plan for them to unite, the more you have to ask: how is this going to impact Creation. If you are more or less leaving that as a dim possibility, then making Autotchon full of technomagical wonders and amazing clockwork tech won't destablize creation because there's never going to be a locust crusade to introduce it. Keep them apart, so you don't have to worry about "what will this do to setting X" and trust the Gamemasters to handle it if they want to have a contact occur.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                And once again, I feel compelled to say that just because a thing didn't have discrete mechanics for doing specifically that one thing, doesn't mean that it can't be done at all.
                I mean, yes, you can homebrew anything but the books explicitly said that Autochthon cannot be healed by his own power (i.e Alchemicals) and only Solar magics could. People are usually going to go with what's "canon" unless they really feel strongly enough to homebrew so making Alchemicals useless in healing their own god in canon is...not good.

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                • #53
                  Ah, right, so assuming that Autochthon not being able to cure himself means alchemicals can't do it is kind of misunderstanding how exalted work.

                  The whole point of them is that they can achieve things their progenitor cannot. So, yeah, the alchemicals could totally find a way to cure autochthon. Somehow.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Frostav View Post
                    I mean, yes, you can homebrew anything but the books explicitly said that Autochthon cannot be healed by his own power (i.e Alchemicals) and only Solar magics could. People are usually going to go with what's "canon" unless they really feel strongly enough to homebrew so making Alchemicals useless in healing their own god in canon is...not good.
                    Not useless, just not absolute. Think of it like actual cancer treatment.


                    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                    Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                      Ah, right, so assuming that Autochthon not being able to cure himself means alchemicals can't do it is kind of misunderstanding how exalted work.

                      The whole point of them is that they can achieve things their progenitor cannot. So, yeah, the alchemicals could totally find a way to cure autochthon. Somehow.
                      It's way more complicated than that. For one, it was never said that their progenitor couldn't cure his illness. It's heavily suggested, that he might not want to, because it's a self-inflicted condition. A price he has to pay to be able to think outside the box. It was also said that the illness is not a big problem by itself - it's only one because Auto is asleep and unable to properly regulate it - and that even now, weakened as he is, he might be able to fight the illness back if only someone managed to wake him up in time.

                      Of course, it doesn't mean that a different solution doesn't exist, one that would achieve his original goal with a less undsirable sideeffects. By that point we're however getting into the realm of doing a spirit lobotomy on a Primordial in order to change his Self. After we've anded, he would no longer be himself. I am in doubt he'd actually be glad for that kind of "help".



                      The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Frostav View Post
                        I mean, yes, you can homebrew anything but the books explicitly said that Autochthon cannot be healed by his own power (i.e Alchemicals)
                        Just like the Incarnae couldn't attack the Primordials with their own power (i.e. the Exalted) and thus the Primordial War never happened... oh wait.

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                        • #57
                          Extending that rhetoric to no Exalted having any limits is absurd.


                          I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                          Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                          https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                          • #58
                            Exceeding the limitations of their creators, on the other hand, is something the Exalted were specifically designed for. Especially if we're talking 2e, which I believe we are.

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                            • #59
                              "Exceeding your creators" is a vague criterion, especially when you were made by a Primordial.

                              Besides, Alchemicals had other limits. Couldn't permanently kill spirits, for one.


                              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                              Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                              https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                                "Exceeding your creators" is a vague criterion, especially when you were made by a Primordial.

                                Besides, Alchemicals had other limits. Couldn't permanently kill spirits, for one.
                                They can with martial arts.

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