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  • If you want to talk about how Lunars stand up against Sidereals, or how they stand up against Solars, that'd fit. But if you want to talk about Solars vs Sidereals, you should probably start a new thread. It doesn't have anything to do with the Lunar playtest.

    So back to that: Does the stuff revealed in the playtest inspire anyone with any particular concepts?

    The echolocation charm in the preview makes me think of a vampire bat-Lunar, which I've considered before. A lot of vampire trappings, necromancer, from the north, etc, but not actually undead. With the swarm charms mentioned in the playtest, you could become a swarm of bats. I have no idea if that'd be good, but it'd be cool.


    My characters:
    Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
    Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng

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    • Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post
      Also Solars have access to Mastery 100%, while whether that is true or not for Sidereals is yet to be seen.
      Mastery is binary. They either have mastery or they don't. Solars have mastery. Sidereals are stated to have mastery. However, DB's and lunars don't.

      I would be interested to find out how lunars interact with native charms and ma but so far solars and dragon blooded have almost zero.
      Last edited by Epimetheus; 08-01-2018, 02:07 PM.

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      • Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
        Mastery is binary. They either have mastery or they don't. Solars have mastery. Sidereals are stated to have mastery. However, DB's and lunars don't.

        ...
        No, Mastery is not a binary state.

        And no it isn't stated that Sidereals have Mastery on all the time. It is stated they have esotheric methods to access Mastery. Which can be something like what DB IMAs do to avoid the Terrestrial keyword.

        I asked Vance on the Dev Thread, and, like I said, nothing is set in stone yet.

        From what I understood of his answer, he is trying to make the "esotheric method" into something cool.

        So it also goes to say that if they have to employ the "esotheric method" to access Mastery, they don't have 100% on all the time, like Solaroids.

        All subject to change, of course.

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        • Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post

          I tried to bring it back around. It is interesting that the stamina lunar charm doesn't rely on abilities. They'll probably be able to combo native charms with ma if it's a feature and not an exception. Unless the charms mention specific brawl attacks.
          The Charm definitely encourages you to use Fire Dragon Style unarmed, with or without magical claws.

          But if you want to use Fire Dragon and Steel Devil together, you’re going to want a Dexterity build.


          Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

          My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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          • Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post

            The Charm definitely encourages you to use Fire Dragon Style unarmed, with or without magical claws.

            But if you want to use Fire Dragon and Steel Devil together, you’re going to want a Dexterity build.
            Perhaps but I'm moreso wondering what kind of interactions they'll have compared to solars and DBs who only have the ability to add die from exellencies and no unique charms in MA.

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            • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
              If you want to talk about how Lunars stand up against Sidereals, or how they stand up against Solars, that'd fit. But if you want to talk about Solars vs Sidereals, you should probably start a new thread. It doesn't have anything to do with the Lunar playtest.

              ...
              That is true, though the context of the argument was that of Sidereal vs Lunars, and one of the balance points mentioned was that of Sidereal mastery of MAs that should be counterbalanced by Lunar mastery of Sorcery.

              So the understanding of how the MA relationship of Sidereals and Solars works is tangential to the point being argued.

              So it was a triangulated argument.

              Understanding that Sidereals have a special relationship with MAs without necessarily overshadowing Solars helps understanding that Lunars can have a similar relationship with Sorcery.

              It avoids the fallacy of "Sidereals are better at MAs than Solars, so Lunars should be better at Sorcery than both!".

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              • Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post
                It avoids the fallacy of "Sidereals are better at MAs than Solars, so Lunars should be better at Sorcery than both!".
                ,
                Even conditional access to Mastery, means that most times, a master martial artist sidereal will be objectively better than a master martial artist solar, especially with SMA. Which, unlike mastery, solars will never be able to get the sutra bonuses of SMA. And while Solars are better at sorcery it doesn't mean that lunars won't have tricks that make them conditionally better. That shadow spell shaping charm certainly seems to make them the best combat sorcerers. However, it seems like this edition lunars will be more than ever working on their shapeshifting and what exactly they can do with it.

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                • Epimetheus

                  Not really.

                  It goes back to what I first stated. Sidereals will be better at SMAs, as they should be. Solar(oid)s will be better at MAs, as they have non-conditional Mastery for it. Also don't be so quick in assuming things about the Sutras.

                  This is Vance on the matter, not so long ago:

                  "A Solar martial artist can boast knowledge of all of Snake style, or blend powerful techniques from multiple styles, right out of character creation. They will be as devastatingly powerful in combat, generally speaking, as a Solar who's devoted themselves to any of the other combat Abilities. This is as it should be. The Solar Exalted are unquestionably the mightiest of the Exalted.

                  This does not mean that a Sidereal must be overshadowed when it comes to being a martial artist. Their are all sorts of advantages they could have (I say could because we haven't started on their mechanics) which Solars don't get: easier access to Martial Arts, native Charms that synergize with Martial Arts styles, the ability to teach themselves Sidereal Martial Arts and invent new styles without need of a tutor."

                  For all we know there might be a way for a Solar to activate the power of the Sutras, as the Sidereals have a way to access Mastery, or there may not be, like IMAs and Aura. But Sidereals can be peerless MAs when looked at hollistically rather than some clear cut thing.

                  Don't be so certain about uncertain things, that leads to disappointment.

                  As for Sorcery, Solars have Solar Circle access, with it's spells, additional Shaping Ritual, and ease of Workings that come with it. They also have Sorcery Charms with no pre-requisites, so they are the ones that can most easily dip into Sorcery.

                  Lunar Sorcery access Charms will have pre-reqs, though fewer than DB's.

                  I see no problem with Lunars having Sorcery tricks that Solars just can't replicate or do better. But this will be a subjective "better".

                  Who is the "better" combat sorcerer the Lunar shadow casting Cantata of Empty Voices, or a Solar blasting away with Death Ray? The scenarios are just too varied for this to be a useful discussion.
                  Last edited by TGUEIROS; 08-01-2018, 05:55 PM.

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                  • Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post
                    Epimetheus

                    For all we know there might be a way for a Solar to activate the power of the Sutras, as the Sidereals have a way to access Mastery, or there may not be, like IMAs and Aura. But Sidereals can be peerless MAs when looked at hollistically rather than some clear cut thing.
                    That's like saying Solars can craft fate or shapeshift. There are a number of things solars just can't do no matter how much they want to. We'll have to see how lunars and sidereals work before more setting assumptions can be made, but regardless the fact is, that solars can't do everything. They can do almost everything but that doesn't mean you can just give them stuff that's out of theme like shadow shaping just because lunars have it.

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                    • Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
                      That's like saying Solars can craft fate or shapeshift. There are a number of things solars just can't do no matter how much they want to. We'll have to see how lunars and sidereals work before more setting assumptions can be made, but regardless the fact is, that solars can't do everything. They can do almost everything but that doesn't mean you can just give them stuff that's out of theme like shadow shaping just because lunars have it.
                      This will be the last that I speak on this matter on this thread, because it is getting to a derail point.

                      I'm not an expert on past editions, but I remember skimming through SMAs in the past, and I thought that before there were two levels of Sutras, and that Solars could access the first level.

                      Now, we don't know at all how things will turn out this edition, but if what I remember is true, then your statement doesn't hold water, as it is something that historically Solars have had the ability to touch.

                      Again, don't invest certainty on uncertain things so you don't get upset later. Keep an open mind and trust that the people involved will deliver the best they can, and we can discuss minutiae when we have a solid base from which to launch, instead of my or your assumptions.

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                      • Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post

                        I'm not an expert on past editions, but I remember skimming through SMAs in the past, and I thought that before there were two levels of Sutras, and that Solars could access the first level.
                        They had no access to it, ever. There are some things solars just can't do, nor should they. Perhaps with an N/A artifact like the mantle they could but that's like giving a Celestial the mantle of Brigid. Though it would be interesting to see what Raksi would to get damn thing. Speaking of which, why wouldn't someone who's that old not know about it?

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                        • Do Lunars get anything akin to Wound-Mastering Body Evolution?

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                          • Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
                            They had no access to it, ever. There are some things solars just can't do, nor should they. Perhaps with an N/A artifact like the mantle they could but that's like giving a Celestial the mantle of Brigid. Though it would be interesting to see what Raksi would to get damn thing. Speaking of which, why wouldn't someone who's that old not know about it?
                            I wonder if she knows about it, but is losing the "I'm striving to do something canonically impossible in a sort of pitiful and insane way, and am therefore a bit hard to take seariously" bit where she's trying to get Solar Circle Sorcery.


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                            • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                              So back to that: Does the stuff revealed in the playtest inspire anyone with any particular concepts?
                              Magpie’s Nest Resourcefulness should be inspiring every Lunar to wear a trench coat.

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                              • Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post

                                I tried to bring it back around. It is interesting that the stamina lunar charm doesn't rely on abilities. They'll probably be able to combo native charms with ma if it's a feature and not an exception. Unless the charms mention specific brawl attacks.
                                As did I. The point in my case was by analogy in regards to the Lunar sorcery complaints. Solars are excellent at everything they do, but they are always excellent in a Solar fashion. They cannot be excellent at things Solars do not do at all. Solar themes tend to be straightforward, supernatural applications of the base ability. While they don't do esoteric things, often they can get similar results through raw power.

                                So a Lunar can be tricky and capture a few motes in their anima. Solars can accomplish the same by making MORE motes, and not sweating the loss if they need to pause for a round.

                                It's akin to how a Solar can't turn into a bird, but they can fly by jumping so hard they forget to come back down.

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