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  • Originally posted by Blaque View Post
    My feelings are somewhat similar to Lioness a bit in that some of the presentations of same-sex marriage in teh books eeemd a taaad too easy. Mostly the one with the Water sig' because it seems like she got lucky there I guess? I like the idea talkeda bout in teh book that same-sex marraige is basically like any marriage of love: The House has to get something out of it. Szaya and Kes being pretty compatable as spouses and having to work for that instead of someone htey ahve to sleep with they don't like that way, seems kind of losing its splendor in that context.

    I would say it's more because River's example though is probably a bit too easy feeling htan the way the institution works in the Realm in general, though.
    Dynastic marriage isn't a single transaction that stands alone. It's part of the broader transactional fabric of Dynastic society.

    Being a Dynast isn't just about doing things for your family. Your family also does things for you. You're constantly pulling strings for family members and vice versa. This is part of why marriages are arranged as they are — it's so that your in-laws get woven into your family's network of favors.

    When you demonstrate an ongoing refusal to abide by the dictates of your family, disrupting the web of favors, you find that the family stops doing favors for you. (The family may also exert ongoing social pressure, though this isn't universal.) Refusing an arranged marriage is the archetypical example of such an ongoing refusal, but is not unique in this regard.

    River didn't do any special favor for House Ledaal in order to marry for love. The price she's paying is that House Ledaal won't do her any favors, which is the kiss of death for political ambition in the Realm. That's why someone of her age and skill is languishing in a countryside manor, with no responsibilities or authority of note.

    (An elder Dynast who's accumulated lots of personal power and clout can get away with defying her house. This isn't recompense for all she's done for the house, but rather because she's reached a point where she can rely entirely on her own influence to accomplish her goals without support from her house.)


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    • Originally posted by Blaque View Post

      Good point. The focus on River specifically probalby didn't leave room for that, but she probably did pay something for the relationship.
      Jihe was a patrician. Her family doubtless has mixed feelings about the situation; they're happy that she's married up into a Great House, but River's mother's household has probably taken some vindictive stabs at Jihe's mother's household, whether socially, politically, or financially.


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      • Originally posted by Lioness View Post
        I'd like to note that Lion Hamster's been suspended for the remarks in the opening post in light of their more recent posts, with no attempts to clarify I'm forced to conclude that they knew exactly what they were doing and were trying to get a rise out of people. LGBT representation within the setting is a valid discussion topic but this isn't what this was.
        I'd thank you to not tell me what I think

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        • I think you might be better off talking to Lioness about that in a PM.


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          • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
            I think you might be better off talking to Lioness about that in a PM.
            Talking you say, I've heard of that, it's a method for exchanging thoughts between individuals isn't it?

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            • Nope, not entertaining this. Good bye.


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              • Originally posted by Eric Minton View Post
                River didn't do any special favor for House Ledaal in order to marry for love. The price she's paying is that House Ledaal won't do her any favors, which is the kiss of death for political ambition in the Realm. That's why someone of her age and skill is languishing in a countryside manor, with no responsibilities or authority of note.

                Originally posted by Eric Minton View Post
                Jihe was a patrician. Her family doubtless has mixed feelings about the situation; they're happy that she's married up into a Great House, but River's mother's household has probably taken some vindictive stabs at Jihe's mother's household, whether socially, politically, or financially.
                Thanks for this, it does a lot to contextualise their relationship.


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                • I don't really want to go back through older posts that I overlooked and drag up heavy arguments in detail, but I might occasionally catch a glimpse of a line and have a response to it.

                  Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post

                  That doesn't actually hold true in many cases.
                  Per the way that the Scarlet Dynasty has generally been depicted, particularly so in What Fire Has Wrought, it holds true with particular uniformity for them. Their society is hyper competitive and extremely judgemental, and to be seen as not putting in as much effort as possible to secure the best arrangements for your little budding protector of the holy empire and guardian of the cosmic balance, is to be an object of contempt and scorn in the high society to which you are probably accustomed, and the shame of your elders.

                  I imagine that Mnemon in particular would have a terrifying ire for those in her House who are not putting in the full effort to secure the future of their child.

                  That actually brings things around to another possible value for adoption; an avenue by which a matriarch can reassign a child whose parents are deemed to be not up to snuff. By my read, they wouldn't be able to do this on their own authority, but I imagine that in many cases there are under the table ways of pressuring the problem parent into cooperating. Mnemon has her demons, for instance.


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                  • Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post

                    Personally, i don't get why this change in 3e happened. Dragon blooded don't marry for love. They do it for status and to produce more dragon blooded children. They can love whomever they want and you have dragon blooded like les kadaal who still have affairs with same sex partners while being married.

                    This, the changes to how pregnancy work, and the new breeding merit really annoy me. It's a bunch of minor changes that just alter the setting unnecessarily.
                    Please excuse my ignorance, but what did they do to the Dragon Blooded breeding and pregnancy? I haven't purchased an Exalted product since the 3E Kickstarter.




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                    • Originally posted by Kashi View Post

                      Please excuse my ignorance, but what did they do to the Dragon Blooded breeding and pregnancy? I haven't purchased an Exalted product since the 3E Kickstarter.
                      They added a thing called Progenetive Essence. Essentially DBs slowly build up essence that is passed along during the conception.* The longer a DB goes without having a kid the more of the PE there is resulting in higher odds of exaltation capping at I think about 10 years. Nothing stopping a child concieved almost immediately after one from exalting just its far far less likely than one who got the full tanks from both their parents waiting.

                      *Specific explanations on how are not, clear. Just understand that whenever a DB sucessfully conceives a child the PE is emptied regardless of whether it was through sex or a Neomah takes some hair samples to do it.

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                      • Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
                        They added a thing called Progenetive Essence. Essentially DBs slowly build up essence that is passed along during the conception.* The longer a DB goes without having a kid the more of the PE there is resulting in higher odds of exaltation capping at I think about 10 years. Nothing stopping a child concieved almost immediately after one from exalting just its far far less likely than one who got the full tanks from both their parents waiting.

                        *Specific explanations on how are not, clear. Just understand that whenever a DB sucessfully conceives a child the PE is emptied regardless of whether it was through sex or a Neomah takes some hair samples to do it.
                        Oh. The way everyone was talking, I thought it was something completely off the wall. i can see why that might bother some, but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me unless I am missing something. Thank you.

                        Edit: Do they still being a child to term in 15 months aka one standard Creation year?
                        Last edited by Kashi; 07-31-2018, 02:37 AM. Reason: Edited to ask an additional question.




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                        • Originally posted by Kashi View Post

                          Oh. The way everyone was talking, I thought it was something completely off the wall. i can see why that might bother some, but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me unless I am missing something. Thank you.

                          Honestly, at points the complaints about Progenetive Essence have felt more extreme than they need to. Like I've seen a few people who's issue is they feel it conflicts with Lookshy's whole thing of balancing out the raw power of a Dynastic breeding thing by just having more kids, which I feel is fair though not a big issue. To one person who was concerned that they couldn't play the flirty noble with people pursuing their character romantically, which I just didn't see being altered by the new concept.

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                          • Originally posted by nalak42 View Post


                            Honestly, at points the complaints about Progenetive Essence have felt more extreme than they need to. Like I've seen a few people who's issue is they feel it conflicts with Lookshy's whole thing of balancing out the raw power of a Dynastic breeding thing by just having more kids, which I feel is fair though not a big issue. To one person who was concerned that they couldn't play the flirty noble with people pursuing their character romantically, which I just didn't see being altered by the new concept.
                            I agree. From your explanation, it seems like such a minor tweak you could just gloss over it if you didn't like it.




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                            • Originally posted by Kashi View Post

                              I agree. From your explanation, it seems like such a minor tweak you could just gloss over it if you didn't like it.
                              SLS gave a more detailed thing earlier in the thread, but for the most part what it does is shut down the old DB breeding camp idea which no one has been opposed to. It also adds an interesting quirk into Dynastic circles where one can be a leftover meaning you were conceived without the proper waiting period. Which is just fascinating to me, since it means that somehow you get looked down despite being essentially a demigod.

                              Which for the sake of not getting the thread too off topic how much do you guys think being the leftover hinders marriage prospects? Like a character that is still a DB, so doesn't have to try and negotiate from the weaker point of being a mortal. Do you guys think that requires a minor amount of favor to gloss over or would this be like a step above it being an open secret that the character is actually the bastard offspring of one of the parents?
                              Last edited by nalak42; 07-31-2018, 03:25 AM.

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                              • Originally posted by Kashi View Post
                                Oh. The way everyone was talking, I thought it was something completely off the wall. i can see why that might bother some, but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me unless I am missing something. Thank you.
                                It's just an in game justification for spacing out pregnancies.
                                Originally posted by Kashi View Post
                                Edit: Do they still being a child to term in 15 months aka one standard Creation year?
                                What Fire Has Wrought will have a sidebar covering it. It is nine months for all, though pregnant exalted may stay active until the last few weeks before delivery.

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