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  • I quite simply like the fact there's more options on the table. There are already a million settings out there where playing someone with the same romantic and sexual attraction as myself results by default in being at a social disadvantage and facing an uphill struggle. And yes, the next logical step is not restricting a marriage for love as a character goal to fight for not just to those playing someone straight. Sometimes lbgt+ discrimination is a theme I'd like to explore in a game, but you know, having ample opportunity to do so already in RL, sometimes I'd rather not. So yay for that being an option, and really, must there be a deeper reason?

    I mean, there are plenty of IC reasons as well: the Realm has been given shape by someone who is bi-sexual, in a setting where the issue of procreation can rather easily be side-stepped by the rich and powerful. Sure, sorcery and demon-summoning is mistrusted, but when the big movers and shakers like the Empress, Mnemon and countless others are openly sorcerers and demon summoners, well, it can't really be that severe a prejudice, can it?

    Also, as to Procreative Essence, the eugenics thing and Dragonblooded breeding camps going the way of the dodo is a very, very good thing too!

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    • Originally posted by nalak42 View Post

      ...

      Which for the sake of not getting the thread too off topic how much do you guys think being the leftover hinders marriage prospects? Like a character that is still a DB, so doesn't have to try and negotiate from the weaker point of being a mortal. Do you guys think that requires a minor amount of favor to gloss over or would this be like a step above it being an open secret that the character is actually the bastard offspring of one of the parents?
      "If it’s only been a few years since the Exalt last lent her vitality to conception, then the child is exceedingly unlikely to become Exalted. Such a child will also face prejudice from classmates, who call these Dynasts “leftover children” — that is, made from their older sibling’s leftovers. Even if she Exalts, the stigma remains to a lesser extent, with her bloodline considered inferior to that of her more esteemed kin. The parents also face social consequences for wasting their precious Essence —this is a mark of irresponsibility, and a juicy subject for gossip."

      "Fading Bloodlines
      A household’s bloodline can grow so thin through intermarriage with mortal lineages and leftover children (p. XX) that it largely stops producing Dragon-Blooded scions. Such households live in fear of being stricken from the house’s ledgers. They make wild efforts to find better marriage prospects for their children, often putting themselves deep in debt to House Ragara or other lenders in order to offer sufficient sums at the marriage table."

      They definitely face some stigma, how much stigma I believe it depends on how widespread these occurences are on the bloodline.

      They will have to either lower their prospects or bring more to the table to get what a "not leftover" sibling could.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
        Which for the sake of not getting the thread too off topic how much do you guys think being the leftover hinders marriage prospects?
        I'd say that it can be a basis for having the Thin-blooded Flaw, but not necessarily, and will often come through in only being matched to Dynasts of lower personal prestige and less potent bloodlines. They're extremely unlikely to waste anybody that is Well Bred on you.

        Originally posted by nalak42
        Like a character that is still a DB, so doesn't have to try and negotiate from the weaker point of being a mortal.
        I think that being a mortal that was conceived when their parents were at the height of their Essence is actually preferable.

        Originally posted by nalak42
        Do you guys think that requires a minor amount of favor to gloss over or would this be like a step above it being an open secret that the character is actually the bastard offspring of one of the parents?
        Well, what does gloss over mean here? Create a circumstance in which a well bred member of a prestigious bloodline might be matched up to you? I think there's hardly anything one can do to get into that position.

        They're still Exalted and Dynasts, so their bloodline isn't worth nothing, but I'd say that most marriage prospects will need to be based on people hedging their bets. Somebody whose family history is spotty enough that their odds weren't quite the best in the first place, so matching them up means that a good bloodline's Essence isn't going to waste.


        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
        Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
        https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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        • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

          I'd say that it can be a basis for having the Thin-blooded Flaw, but not necessarily, and will often come through in only being matched to Dynasts of lower personal prestige and less potent bloodlines. They're extremely unlikely to waste anybody that is Well Bred on you.
          How do they know? DB's fake records and identities all the time.

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          • Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post

            How do they know? DB's fake records and identities all the time.
            That is a bit of disengenuous statement.

            Records and identities are carefully kept.

            They can be falsified, but the book specifically calls this out as a very risky proposal.

            "for Dynastic birth and death records are the foundation of inheritance and legacy in the Realm, and falsifying these important documents is grounds for entire households being stricken from the Imperial ledgers."

            It goes on to say that now that Empress is gone, things are changing. But that doesn't mean it is irrelevant either.

            If you are caught by someone with the power to enforce the rules (as the people arraging a Well Bred marriage probably are) , you just ruined your whole household. It is not something to be done flippantly.

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            • Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post
              If you are caught by someone with the power to enforce the rules (as the people arraging a Well Bred marriage probably are) , you just ruined your whole household. It is not something to be done flippantly.
              There are also sections on how people go about falsifying information when children get adopted or when people replace people in the family. Logically, regardless of records there should be a way to check for breeding though charms and a secondary system to make sure things are correct, but i mean it's not stated in the book.

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              • Originally posted by vampire hunter D View Post
                Six pages


                No Mnemon+Ejava

                }
                V’neef and Ejava make more sense to me, though V’neef would need to set aside her current husband to do it.


                Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                • Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post

                  There are also sections on how people go about falsifying information when children get adopted or when people replace people in the family.
                  That is the same section I quoted the penalties from... It says people do it, but also states the penalty for being caught.

                  Like I said, it is a risky proposal.

                  If a family decides to do this, if they have any smarts, they'll have the subject of the false records fly under the radar, not try to arrange a high profile marriage, with powerful people, who will surely verify everything about the deal.

                  Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
                  Logically, regardless of records there should be a way to check for breeding though charms and a secondary system to make sure things are correct, but i mean it's not stated in the book.
                  Bureaucracy, Investigation and Socialize Charms? Those are a thing, ya know?
                  Last edited by TGUEIROS; 07-31-2018, 01:31 PM.

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                  • Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post
                    Bureaucracy, Investigation and Socialize Charms? Those are a thing, ya know?
                    Hmm, would lore make sense or medicine if you were ignoring the person's history and directly diagnosing rather than looking for documentation? I imagine that it'd be quicker for a 3rd party to make out the findings. Ignoring the history and instead acting to make sure the Dragon blooded now are at least at the potency of breeding they are being presented as.

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                    • Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
                      Hmm, would lore make sense or medicine if you were ignoring the person's history and directly diagnosing rather than looking for documentation? I imagine that it'd be quicker for a 3rd party to make out the findings. Ignoring the history and instead acting to make sure the Dragon blooded now are at least at the potency of breeding they are being presented as.
                      For a "physical" examination of Breeding, I would use Occult, as the matter is of Essence, not biology.

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                      • I think that you'll more commonly get faked records for an ancestor than someone born in living memory.The shuffling required to keep a leftover child's family hidden isn't usually worth it.

                        I think bloodline strength should be unobservable directly.


                        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                        Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                        https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                        • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                          I think that you'll more commonly get faked records for an ancestor than someone born in living memory.The shuffling required to keep a leftover child's family hidden isn't usually worth it.

                          I think bloodline strength should be unobservable directly.
                          Well, I don't know if I read this in WFHW or if this is something I absorbed on the forums, but isn't particularly high breeding accompanied by a possibility of more pronounced elemental traits?

                          Either way, is not something that I really thought about deeply and am as inclined to allow as to not allow that in games I run.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post

                            Well, I don't know if I read this in WFHW or if this is something I absorbed on the forums, but isn't particularly high breeding accompanied by a possibility of more pronounced elemental traits?
                            In First and Second Edition, both the Breeding Background and the Aspect write-ups associated more pronounced Aspect markings with higher ratings in the Background.

                            There's no mention of that in What Fire Has Wrought. I'd say that's due to a number of things predicated on part of the draw of playing the Dragon Blooded being giving them such features.

                            That being said, while the mechanical expression of it is fairly straightforward, I read bloodline strength in character as something that both has a decent degree of variation even within the mechanical categories (they are gradients of being Well Bred or Thin-Blooded), and has a wide variety of factors for trying to figure it out. Trends in Aspect markings across generations would be among them.

                            One implication that I see to such variations: a greater degree of precision in how long progenitive Essence takes to recover. Twelve to twenty years leaves a fairly large margin of error, and I would say that determining a good sense of how strong the bloodline is lets one figure out which end of that scale one can rely on.

                            Originally posted by TGUEIROS
                            Either way, is not something that I really thought about deeply and am as inclined to allow as to not allow that in games I run.
                            I think it's more interesting to leave it unobservable, partially because of the reliance on genealogical records (and value in fudging them), and partially because I think it emphasizes the mystique of the Exaltation.

                            I can also think of one textual reference given to suggest that the book itself has about the same idea; the point about twins, and how it's impossible to know which one of them is the leftover child. That has to be especially distressing in cases where neither or both of them Exalt, because how are matchmakers supposed to figure out who is the more worthwhile partner? Hell, that can even go for when only one of them Exalts, since it's always a possibility that low Essence will express and high Essence will not.

                            It also plays into some of my own ideas, such as a man who impregnates his wife and another woman at approximately the same time, and is not in a position to know which came first. Among my ideas of secrets in family history that can be the basis of intense investigations and worth killing to protect is somebody uncovering that fact a few generations back (although it's one that actually still works if it's recent); I can imagine that there are many kinds of marriage negotiation that can be scuppered if a rival can find proof suggesting the possibility that en eligible bachelor(rette) is actually either a leftover child, or descended from one.


                            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                            Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                            https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                            • I would think the whole risk of the records being faked and someoen being found-out is like, part of the appeal of having that at all in a character's backstory. That's a plot thread, not some huge impediment I would think.

                              And since even with the best odds, you have a chance your kid is just a mortal or just get lucked-out and have no one Exalt, something else worth keeping in mind. Your bad bloodline might just be blamed more on bad luck or some personal failing or whatever the hell folks excuse.

                              Also, randomly to me, I like how Procreative Essence has this Taoist vibe to it, but that's just me on that.


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                              • Originally posted by Blaque View Post
                                Also, randomly to me, I like how Procreative Essence has this Taoist vibe to it, but that's just me on that.
                                Really, how so?

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