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  • Lion Hamster
    started a topic Gay arranged marriages

    Gay arranged marriages

    Gay... arranged... marriages

    The way I see it, there are two ways this can work
    A) They're all love marriages
    Which would make them rather looked down on and I doubt Vancey would do that

    B) They're done whenever it's convenient for the house
    Which means there's a huge amount of heterosexual people forced into gay marriages... which is hilarious

  • Blaque
    replied
    Originally posted by Lioness View Post
    Different Taoist sects had different ideas about sexuality.
    I know the actual sex magic part of Taoism thought that sex with virgin girls was a path towards immortality because I wish I could forget reading about that.
    I mean, there's a reason why I tried to note it hints at things in the broadest sense and tried to speak in generalities. Because being kind of hinting at the braoder Taoist sex magic is good. Being specific ones is...ummm, yeah. For my take, I remember it as a kung fu thing for men not releasing and building up to cultivate qi or something to learn some technique.

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  • Lioness
    replied
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

    I understand that historically, that was part of the basis for certain kinds of socially endorsed pederasty? The idea being that you could get sexual release without expending your essence through male-male sex, and that doing so with a younger man or teenager meant that it didn't undermine masculinity?
    Different Taoist sects had different ideas about sexuality.
    I know the actual sex magic part of Taoism thought that sex with virgin girls was a path towards immortality because I wish I could forget reading about that.

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  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by Blaque View Post
    There's a general thing in some Taoist or at least, Taoist-inspired things, of "cultivaiton" of one's ummm, procreative powers. It's usually done more thorugth just like, not doing sexual things and such, but that there's a cultivation aspect invovled here and such is kind of intersting and creates a route for stoic sorts who really take this shit seriously.
    I understand that historically, that was part of the basis for certain kinds of socially endorsed pederasty? The idea being that you could get sexual release without expending your essence through male-male sex, and that doing so with a younger man or teenager meant that it didn't undermine masculinity?

    Leave a comment:


  • Blaque
    replied
    There's a general thing in some Taoist or at least, Taoist-inspired things, of "cultivaiton" of one's ummm, procreative powers. It's usually done more thorugth just like, not doing sexual things and such, but that there's a cultivation aspect invovled here and such is kind of intersting and creates a route for stoic sorts who really take this shit seriously.

    Leave a comment:


  • nalak42
    replied
    Originally posted by Blaque View Post
    Also, randomly to me, I like how Procreative Essence has this Taoist vibe to it, but that's just me on that.
    Really, how so?

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  • Blaque
    replied
    I would think the whole risk of the records being faked and someoen being found-out is like, part of the appeal of having that at all in a character's backstory. That's a plot thread, not some huge impediment I would think.

    And since even with the best odds, you have a chance your kid is just a mortal or just get lucked-out and have no one Exalt, something else worth keeping in mind. Your bad bloodline might just be blamed more on bad luck or some personal failing or whatever the hell folks excuse.

    Also, randomly to me, I like how Procreative Essence has this Taoist vibe to it, but that's just me on that.

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  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post

    Well, I don't know if I read this in WFHW or if this is something I absorbed on the forums, but isn't particularly high breeding accompanied by a possibility of more pronounced elemental traits?
    In First and Second Edition, both the Breeding Background and the Aspect write-ups associated more pronounced Aspect markings with higher ratings in the Background.

    There's no mention of that in What Fire Has Wrought. I'd say that's due to a number of things predicated on part of the draw of playing the Dragon Blooded being giving them such features.

    That being said, while the mechanical expression of it is fairly straightforward, I read bloodline strength in character as something that both has a decent degree of variation even within the mechanical categories (they are gradients of being Well Bred or Thin-Blooded), and has a wide variety of factors for trying to figure it out. Trends in Aspect markings across generations would be among them.

    One implication that I see to such variations: a greater degree of precision in how long progenitive Essence takes to recover. Twelve to twenty years leaves a fairly large margin of error, and I would say that determining a good sense of how strong the bloodline is lets one figure out which end of that scale one can rely on.

    Originally posted by TGUEIROS
    Either way, is not something that I really thought about deeply and am as inclined to allow as to not allow that in games I run.
    I think it's more interesting to leave it unobservable, partially because of the reliance on genealogical records (and value in fudging them), and partially because I think it emphasizes the mystique of the Exaltation.

    I can also think of one textual reference given to suggest that the book itself has about the same idea; the point about twins, and how it's impossible to know which one of them is the leftover child. That has to be especially distressing in cases where neither or both of them Exalt, because how are matchmakers supposed to figure out who is the more worthwhile partner? Hell, that can even go for when only one of them Exalts, since it's always a possibility that low Essence will express and high Essence will not.

    It also plays into some of my own ideas, such as a man who impregnates his wife and another woman at approximately the same time, and is not in a position to know which came first. Among my ideas of secrets in family history that can be the basis of intense investigations and worth killing to protect is somebody uncovering that fact a few generations back (although it's one that actually still works if it's recent); I can imagine that there are many kinds of marriage negotiation that can be scuppered if a rival can find proof suggesting the possibility that en eligible bachelor(rette) is actually either a leftover child, or descended from one.

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  • TGUEIROS
    replied
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    I think that you'll more commonly get faked records for an ancestor than someone born in living memory.The shuffling required to keep a leftover child's family hidden isn't usually worth it.

    I think bloodline strength should be unobservable directly.
    Well, I don't know if I read this in WFHW or if this is something I absorbed on the forums, but isn't particularly high breeding accompanied by a possibility of more pronounced elemental traits?

    Either way, is not something that I really thought about deeply and am as inclined to allow as to not allow that in games I run.

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  • Isator Levi
    replied
    I think that you'll more commonly get faked records for an ancestor than someone born in living memory.The shuffling required to keep a leftover child's family hidden isn't usually worth it.

    I think bloodline strength should be unobservable directly.

    Leave a comment:


  • TGUEIROS
    replied
    Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
    Hmm, would lore make sense or medicine if you were ignoring the person's history and directly diagnosing rather than looking for documentation? I imagine that it'd be quicker for a 3rd party to make out the findings. Ignoring the history and instead acting to make sure the Dragon blooded now are at least at the potency of breeding they are being presented as.
    For a "physical" examination of Breeding, I would use Occult, as the matter is of Essence, not biology.

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  • Epimetheus
    replied
    Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post
    Bureaucracy, Investigation and Socialize Charms? Those are a thing, ya know?
    Hmm, would lore make sense or medicine if you were ignoring the person's history and directly diagnosing rather than looking for documentation? I imagine that it'd be quicker for a 3rd party to make out the findings. Ignoring the history and instead acting to make sure the Dragon blooded now are at least at the potency of breeding they are being presented as.

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  • TGUEIROS
    replied
    Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post

    There are also sections on how people go about falsifying information when children get adopted or when people replace people in the family.
    That is the same section I quoted the penalties from... It says people do it, but also states the penalty for being caught.

    Like I said, it is a risky proposal.

    If a family decides to do this, if they have any smarts, they'll have the subject of the false records fly under the radar, not try to arrange a high profile marriage, with powerful people, who will surely verify everything about the deal.

    Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
    Logically, regardless of records there should be a way to check for breeding though charms and a secondary system to make sure things are correct, but i mean it's not stated in the book.
    Bureaucracy, Investigation and Socialize Charms? Those are a thing, ya know?
    Last edited by TGUEIROS; 07-31-2018, 01:31 PM.

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  • glamourweaver
    replied
    Originally posted by vampire hunter D View Post
    Six pages


    No Mnemon+Ejava

    }
    V’neef and Ejava make more sense to me, though V’neef would need to set aside her current husband to do it.

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  • Epimetheus
    replied
    Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post
    If you are caught by someone with the power to enforce the rules (as the people arraging a Well Bred marriage probably are) , you just ruined your whole household. It is not something to be done flippantly.
    There are also sections on how people go about falsifying information when children get adopted or when people replace people in the family. Logically, regardless of records there should be a way to check for breeding though charms and a secondary system to make sure things are correct, but i mean it's not stated in the book.

    Leave a comment:

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