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Cannon as a personal weapon (3e) Advice is needed

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  • Cannon as a personal weapon (3e) Advice is needed

    In 2e one of my players had a character with an artifact red jade cannon. Being really huge he could use it as an improvised goremaul and as a devastating great siege firewand. Now in 3e just moving the siege weapon is a feat of strength 7 already, and the Giant Merit doesn't add anything to character's strength. So how would you translate this Solar to 3ed?

  • #2
    Use the stats for a Dragon Sigh Wand, which is a Heavy Artifact Archery weapon and have the artifact’s attunement bonus be that it can be used as a Goremaul with the improvised tag and describe it as HELLA BIG. Grant it Evocations that do extra damage because of its bigness and take a look at Sekhem if you have Arms of the Chosen.


    ....

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    • #3
      BrilliantRain, okay, that's quite an interesting option. But what if the weapon wan't intended to be used that way, and only personal might of the Solar allowed him to do it?
      Last edited by Aleksay; 08-02-2018, 03:05 PM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Aleksay View Post
        In 2e one of my players had a character with an artifact red jade cannon. Being really huge he could use it as an improvised goremaul and as a devastating great siege firewand. Now in 3e just moving the siege weapon is a feat of strength 7 already, and the Giant Merit doesn't add anything to character's strength. So how would you translate this Solar to 3ed?
        You'd probably need a custom charm that's an upgrade to thousand ox meditation that permanently increases your strength explicitly for feats of strength.

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        • #5
          Or maybe a charm specifically for wielding big stuff. You could also have it work on warstrider weaponry.

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          • #6
            Well, artifact weapons often weigh less for the wielder once you're attuned to them, so if the Solar is attuned to the cannon you could rule that he can simply carry it around without it being an issue. Honestly I think BrillianRain has a pretty elegant solution and I was going to come here and suggest something very similar.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Aleksay View Post
              BrilliantRain, okay, that's quite an interesting option. But what if the weapon wan't intended to be used that way, and only personal might of the Solar allowed him to do it?
              The moment the Solar first took this cannon and used it as a melee weapon (which at the time was a Feat of Strength to acquire an improvised weapon), its legend forever changed and now expresses itself through Evocations discussed by BrilliantRain. The Solar is the only one who can actually wield it thus.

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              • #8
                You could make it one of the very rare warstrider-scale Artifacts of the world.

                Something that only a being of Legendary Size could normally wield, but that a Solar with Athletics Charms could accomplish.


                Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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                • #9
                  I think the main issue here is this: is your storyteller ok with you carrying around something that probably uses the rules for a Lightning Ballista at the cost of another charm or two? Alternately, are you ok with something that has the stats of a Heavy Artifact Archery Weapon, as long as it would normally be an impressive feat to carry it around?

                  Because I think that's the real sticking point there. As people have said, you can say that this Dragon Sigh Wand was built as a deck gun on a first age ship and it's crazy heavy and awkward, but you're just so awesome that you can use it like a normal weapon. But, if what you really want is a way to carry around a Lightning Ballista ....that's something you need to negotiate with your storyteller about.


                  ....

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Aleksay View Post
                    BrilliantRain, okay, that's quite an interesting option. But what if the weapon wan't intended to be used that way, and only personal might of the Solar allowed him to do it?
                    It's worth noting that Evocations are the character's prowess expressed through their artifact. You can use those to make the weapon 'feel' appropriately heavy.
                    Ideas include
                    • Being able to steady yourself and use the cannon more or less 'as intended' replacing the Dragon Sigh Wand's traits for those of an Artifact Flame Cannon.
                    • Using the recoil force of the weapon to propel yourself in a particular direction, possibly as an aspect of the goremaul attack option.
                    • I'm quite partial to the special attack Sloth's Rage (Ex3 core page 564) for artifact melee weapons big and unwieldy enough to be considered 'improvised' because it takes the basic effect of the Improvised tag and compensates you for it when it's time to deal decisive damage.


                    The Freedom Stone is back, help it to live again.

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                    • #11
                      Charms are an abstraction so ultimately it's a matter of taste whether you want to staple the "I can lug around a massive cannon and use it like a gun" effect to yourself or the cannon.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post
                        But, if what you really want is a way to carry around a Lightning Ballista ....that's something you need to negotiate with your storyteller about.
                        This made me think... a Warstrider-sized Firewand would be quite a humongous cannon by any other metric, but would still "only" have the staline of an artifact heavy weapon, with Evocations if it were an actual Artifact.

                        This suggests to me the kind of cannon the OP is talking about would have been statted as an Artifact Firewand (whatever poetic name they get that I can't be arsed to check right now) with Evocations emphasizing its huge size and siege applications anyway.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post
                          I think the main issue here is this: is your storyteller ok with you carrying around something that probably uses the rules for a Lightning Ballista at the cost of another charm or two? Alternately, are you ok with something that has the stats of a Heavy Artifact Archery Weapon, as long as it would normally be an impressive feat to carry it around?

                          Because I think that's the real sticking point there. As people have said, you can say that this Dragon Sigh Wand was built as a deck gun on a first age ship and it's crazy heavy and awkward, but you're just so awesome that you can use it like a normal weapon. But, if what you really want is a way to carry around a Lightning Ballista ....that's something you need to negotiate with your storyteller about.
                          The real issue is that lightning ballista's were not made to be used as personal weaponary and take a lot more work to use now. Also, since I was looking at the level of artifacts, I was reading about the dauntless an artifact 5 armor that lets you commit for extra motes to get 1 automatic success to lifting and moving as well as 3 extra strength for the purposes of lifting stuff. Permanently, so with that artifact you could in fact lift it.

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                          • #14
                            I suggest making it a grand goremaul with evocations to cover its actual use as a cannon. Here's a quick outline for a tree off the top of my head.

                            Fiery-Jawed Fusillade - Simple attack Charm, shoots a jet of flame as a decisive attack out to medium range, probably with a damage bonus of some sort.

                            Stoke the Hungry Salamander - Draw in flames/anima to set the cannon on fire, adding damage to melee attacks. Discharge to empower an attack with Fiery-Jawed Fusillade.

                            Dragon Soars on Wings of Flame - Shoot the cannon into the ground to empower a leap.

                            The Dragon Descends - Melee area attack that you can use when falling from height, with synergy for Dragon Soars on Wings of Flame.

                            Last Flight of the Garda - Discharge Stoke the Hungry Salamander for a siege shot similar to the Lightning Ballista.

                            Hope that gives you some ideas. Remember that you say what goes at your table. If the rule about moving siege equipment requiring a feat of strength is inconvenient, ignore it or make exceptions.


                            Currently writing for Heirs to the Shogunate.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Crumplepunch View Post
                              Hope that gives you some ideas. Remember that you say what goes at your table. If the rule about moving siege equipment requiring a feat of strength is inconvenient, ignore it or make exceptions.
                              Uh, except you know. The fact that if it can be used as a personal weapon it kind of breaks combat. It's why siege weapons work completely different now. Dragon sigh was recommended because a siege weapon can absolutely dominate the game as they've been presented now.

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