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How often do you delay your action to attempt a clash?

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  • #16
    I think I'd expect a charm (which cost 8/10xp, so should be better than parity) that says "you may activate this charm when delaying to waive the 2i cost of delaying" to cost 2 or 3m. I'd be willing to buy it for a character who often delays if it cost 4m. I think if it cost 5m+, I'd consider it a poor deal and wouldn't bother buying it.


    I run... Lunars: The Apocalypse! Exalted 3rd edition. Fimbulwinter is upon the world as an Ice Age begins, and only six young Lunar heroes have a chance of saving humanity.

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    • #17
      What if you could use a reflexive movement action and then still delay your attack for the round?

      Or if you could not only delay your attack, but the longer you delayed, the better your attack becomes... though being attacked beforehand would cancel the bonus.


      Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

      My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
        What if you could use a reflexive movement action and then still delay your attack for the round?

        Or if you could not only delay your attack, but the longer you delayed, the better your attack becomes... though being attacked beforehand would cancel the bonus.
        That might be a bit much bookkeeping, but I'm not sure.

        For my answer I might have a Solar go 1-2 motes for a delay to clash only, 2-3 motes for a general delay. For a DB 2-3 motes for a delay to clash only.

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        • #19
          The character I did a lot of my practice combats with is a Steel Devil martial artist with paired short daiklaves, so delaying was a fairly frequent tactic in those trials. While I don't have the math to prove it, my impression was the 2i spent to delay was more than paid back by the extra attack dice on the clash and how they interacted with the MA charms to deal more damage. Plus, y'know, motes I spent on the attack were also effectively increasing my Defense in single combat.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

            Something you can always do is try to be an arrogant dick during the combat and make them WANT to attack you, even if they shouldn’t. I think that’s basically what fire aspects are built to do.

            ...
            You know, ever since we first got the IMAs preview, and the talk that that happened about Fire Dragon and Steel Devil, that this sort of build keeps popping up in my head as the first DB I would like to play.

            I was rereading Fire Dragon Style, and the bit about it being trained along with dance caught my attention. I went to reread the Performance Charms and found Irresistible Whirlpool Diversion.

            How cool is that?

            JB - Get as high as possible Join Battle and channel all you can to your Offhand Charge.

            R1 - Activate Dual Slaying Stance.

            R2 - Start an anger inspiring, Irresistible Whirlpool Diversion backed, dance.

            R3 - Flurry full defense with continued performing.

            If you have one more round before starting the dance, you can activate Moth to the Candle.

            With this the dance will anger your foes and will make it very hard for them to pay attention to anything but you. If you have Moth to the Candle, even more so.

            If they attack you, through Dual Slaying Stance, you get a Decisive Counterattack that doesn't reset you to base.

            Dual Slaying Stance is almost an Excellency capped Parry (+2, DB maximum +3), you're in full defense (another +2 to Defense), but flurrying (-1 Defense, I seem to remember a flurry penalty negation for flurry with Social Influence, but i think it was restricted to Socialize and Presence, not sure though).

            If you had a high enough JB, one where even after offloading to OCharge you are still higher than your enemies, you can benefit short swords (light) and Flame-Flicker Stance, and also give your counters a bit more oomph with Perfect Blazing Blow.

            If not rock the (medium) swords and get that +1 parry off the bat.

            The more numerous the enemies the more FFS will shine.

            Depending on stats and luck, all of your enemies will want to attack you and everytime they do they'll get a 5-10 dice of damage Decisive to the face. Depending on rolls, that is 2-4 rounds to kill whatever number of enemies attacking you. While you are in drawing their attention away from whatever else and in an extremely strong defensive position.

            The aesthetics are also awesome, the whirlpool theme drawing the enemies to you to be pureed... I'm tempted to grant Three Swords Devil the sobriquet "The Antlion".

            Bonus: Petal-Strewn Pavane will let you flurry movement actions with dancing without flurry penalties, so you can disengage and rush while keep dancing, baiting your enemies into traps and/or hazards, or closing in with ranged attackers when needed.
            Last edited by TGUEIROS; 08-09-2018, 09:58 AM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Matt the Bruins fan View Post
              The character I did a lot of my practice combats with is a Steel Devil martial artist with paired short daiklaves, so delaying was a fairly frequent tactic in those trials. While I don't have the math to prove it, my impression was the 2i spent to delay was more than paid back by the extra attack dice on the clash and how they interacted with the MA charms to deal more damage. Plus, y'know, motes I spent on the attack were also effectively increasing my Defense in single combat.
              What about when you're delaying to make a smash attack? You're losing a total of 4i.

              It's probably worth every point if it succeeds, but it's still expensive.

              When you're also using Stillness-of-Stone Atemi, you're spending even more Initiative than that.


              Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

              My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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              • #22
                Tiger Style has absolutely no parrying or evasion Charms. It only allows light armor, but includes a soak-enhancing Charm. Paired tiger claws and razor claws have no Defense bonus, the best basic clash attack accuracy in the game, and the Style is full of Charms for capitalizing on successful attacks and grapple gambits to inflict tremendous damage. Grappling someone penalizes their attack rolls by -1; by -3 if they use a two-handed weapon, which neatly neutralizes the clash bonus of two-handed melee weapons.

                Basically, whenever you have the Initiative advantage in a duel (whether an actual duel or a moment in which there's no one else within range of the two of you), you should always be delaying your action to force a clash. At least, if you mean to make a withering attack.

                Even when making a decisive clash attack (and therefore losing your accuracy bonus) paired tiger claws give you a +2 bonus to the attack roll. That's good enough to match the withering attack pool of a mundane medium or two-handed heavy weapon (the later of which because it is bringing its own +2 clash bonus).

                When faced with the prospect of attacking you and risking a clash, your lower-Initiative opponent may decide to try disengaging instead. If they do, Tiger Form basically refunds you the cost of delaying. Plus, even if they succeed, you can use your action to rush them, and Tiger Style has all sorts of tricks to chase after and then punish someone who ran away.

                Since Tiger Style includes a Charm to render a target prone, there's value in delaying to clash with a withering attack so that you can ensure you can act again in the next round before your target has a chance to stand back up. Any Exalt can use the follow-up attack to deliver Spine-Shattering Bite, which greatly complicates the target's ability to rise from prone. A Solar can use Raging Tiger Pounce's mastery level to make attacks against the prone target undodgeable; this can be multiple attacks, as shaking off the effects of Spine-Shattering Bite and rising from prone are two different actions. Reversing the effects of SSB also counts as disengaging, which renders the victim vulnerable to a number of nasty effects.

                Since Tiger Form renders the martial artist immune to the usual penalties of being prone (possibly including the inability to take movement actions, if I remember Robert's answer correctly), then a grand master martial artist never needs to relent in her assault if knocked down; she just drags her opponent down to her level and beats him with experience.


                We don't know if it's possible to delay your grappling action after successfully initiating a grapple. Naturally, this seems to only matter if you grappled the target immediately rather than as part of a successful clash forced by already delaying your action. But afterwards, it should be possible to delay your action so that you can clash your victim's attacks with savaging or throwing attacks.

                On the one hand, this actually gives them a way to defend against your savaging or throwing attacks when normally their Defense is completely inapplicable. On the other, if you win the clash with a savaging attack, they can't use their attack to reduce your rounds of control through inflicting damage (though you should still lose one round for being clashed at all).

                Losing rounds of control isn't a concern if you just want to throw your opponent. But delaying a withering throw is pretty much like delaying to make a non-grappling withering attack with Raging Tiger Pounce; if you succeed, your target is prone, can't act again until the next round, and you can attack in the next round before he can act.

                There's no point in delaying for a restrain action, which has no attack roll to clash with, and which renders the target incapable of acting anyway.
                Last edited by Sunder the Gold; 08-11-2018, 01:30 PM.


                Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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                • #23
                  So far I've primarily played a non-combatant and a grappler in 3rd, but I sort of get inspired by this to make a character that wields a mirrored weapon which has evocations that plays with this mechanic by embodying patience and meeting force with force


                  Amateur drawsmith

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post
                    R2 - Flurry Full Defense with an anger inspiring, Irresistible Whirlpool Diversion backed, dance.
                    Sadly, I don't think you can flurry Simple charms...

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                    • #25
                      I’m glad my thread is giving people new ideas.

                      Are my Clash breakdowns of the Martial Arts Styles helpful or interesting at all?


                      Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                      My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                        This question is especially for players whose characters use two-handed heavy weapons, with their clash bonus and low Accuracy.
                        It's probably going to factor heavily into "how to play a Sidereal" if their excellency still works anything like it does in the Ex3 core.


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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Synapse View Post
                          Sadly, I don't think you can flurry Simple charms...

                          That is true, I got a little mixed up with Petal-Strewn Pavane, which I was examining for Disengage and Rush while dancing.

                          Though that doesn't change the essence of the actions, it only requires you to have another round of preparation, so the flurrying with the dance starts at R3.

                          I will adjust the post for that.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post
                            That is true, I got a little mixed up with Petal-Strewn Pavane, which I was examining for Disengage and Rush while dancing.
                            If it matters, Robert is going to re-examine PSP after someone complained that it was too powerful compared to Dragon-Blooded Athletics and Dodge Charms.


                            Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                            My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Lioness View Post
                              It's probably going to factor heavily into "how to play a Sidereal" if their excellency still works anything like it does in the Ex3 core.
                              I forget, how does it work and how do you see it factoring into this tactic?


                              Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                              My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post

                                If it matters, Robert is going to re-examine PSP after someone complained that it was too powerful compared to Dragon-Blooded Athletics and Dodge Charms.
                                I didn't know that it was going under revision, or paid any real attention as to how it compares to the other trees.

                                I hope it doesn't get too downgraded, but we'll see!

                                Thanks for the info!
                                Last edited by TGUEIROS; 08-09-2018, 11:46 AM.

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