Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

2e: Purity Crucible Strike, how comes Dragon Bloods ain't pure ?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 2e: Purity Crucible Strike, how comes Dragon Bloods ain't pure ?

    Reading this charm makes me think of the implications of it, how comes first age solars didn't mass breed and used this charm as a way to obtain millions of dragon blooded retainers ?

    Step 1 Order your slave/servant DB to mass produce with the brainwashed population of your principality, everyone gets a DB kid.
    Step 2 Use Terrestrial Edification Program to rise the presence of your older DB to 6 and tell them to learn the charm
    Step 3 wait a few centuries while you indoctrinate the low breeding DB and keep producing more, use TEP to rise one of their virtues so they can channel them.
    Step 4 wait 100/200 years or so so they can rise their essence to an acceptable level, mass use PCS to rise their breeding. Sure some will die but by rising their essence and virtue channeling you can keep it to moderate numbers, and if you have millions of them....
    Step 5 Profit
    In less than a millenia you'll have as much dragon blooded as you want, a steady influx of them that will keep getting their blood purified to be completely pure breed DBs and soon you will need humans no more... except perhaps to save you from the very DB you've created.
    Last edited by Cruzwindt; 08-09-2018, 01:46 PM.

  • #2
    Congratulations,you've discovered one of the many ways 2e devalued every non-Solar Exalt, which is like finding a straw of hay in a haystack.

    The ostensible reason, if you insist on one, could be as simple as "You can't force me."
    [DB] So wait, you want me to punch purity into my own brothers and sisters, murdering plenty of them, so that... you can have a slightly fancier army than your neighbor?
    [Solar] YES.
    [DB] Right. I'll get right on that. BRB I have a meeting to get to with a sidereal about a ... surpation-uyay....
    Last edited by Meianno Yuurei; 08-09-2018, 02:10 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Meianno Yuurei View Post
      Congratulations,you've discovered one of the many ways 2e devalued every non-Solar Exalt, which is like finding a straw of hay in a haystack.

      The ostensible reason, if you insist on one, could be as simple as "You can't force me."
      [DB] So wait, you want me to punch purity into my own brothers and sisters, murdering plenty of them, so that... you can have a slightly fancier army than your neighbor?
      [Solar] YES.
      [DB] Right. I'll get right on that. BRB I have a meeting to get to with a sidereal about a ... surpation-uyay....

      I logged in for the first time in a year solely to give you a like and acknowledge you made me laugh out loud. Well done.

      Slightly more seriously, there's two versions of Exalted especially in 2e. There's the Exalted you read about in the lore, the setting detail and the history. And then there's the rules engine. Ideally, most games want to synch the two up so there's minimal disconnect. 2e didn't do an especially good job of that. You will inevitably find ways to break the setting. Try to think of it as a feature rather than a bug.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Meianno Yuurei View Post
        Congratulations,you've discovered one of the many ways 2e devalued every non-Solar Exalt, which is like finding a straw of hay in a haystack.

        The ostensible reason, if you insist on one, could be as simple as "You can't force me."
        [DB] So wait, you want me to punch purity into my own brothers and sisters, murdering plenty of them, so that... you can have a slightly fancier army than your neighbor?
        [Solar] YES.
        [DB] Right. I'll get right on that. BRB I have a meeting to get to with a sidereal about a ... surpation-uyay....

        LOL That answer. Despite being so funny, it's actually a great idea for an usurpation game.... Solar gets betrayed by the millions of dragon blood slaves he had made attempting to create a nation of only exalted.

        Comment


        • #5
          Really, most questions about "Why didn't this happen" can be answered by stepping back and asking: Are you inquiring about the setting as perceived by an omniscient, all-knowing, perfectly prescient and sage genius who knows everything you have ever read in any book ever? A Perfect Rational Actor whose every action is driven towards optimization of some goal?

          If so, stop that. The Exalted of the First Age squabbled, adventured, warred, reveled, loved, and wept. They built empires, forged wonders, united kingdoms, made fortunes, and generally did a lot of Really Cool Adventure stuff.

          They were not nerds who sat around thinking on the most efficient way to optimize dragon-blooded breeding for maximum output, and even if they were, and I realize that 2e did not encourage this idea, the Dragon-Blooded were also Exalted. They had squabbles and adventures and wars and revelries and love triangles and sorrows to attend to! They built their own kingdoms, forged wonders of their own, became rich beyond mortal imagining, and did their own Really Cool Adventure stuff, even if it was slightly less Epic and Mythic by dint of being limited by their lesser power relative to the Solars.

          2e seems to have given you the impression that the Dragon-Blooded were mindless slaves devotedly loyal to the Solars, willing to spend their entire 500 year lifespans meditating on mountains and focusing their essence to take a gamble at dying in order to become marginally more powerful.

          If this is true, 2e was wrong.

          Comment


          • #6
            Shortly after Glories to the Most High came out I came to the conclusion that it and DotFA were actually the wrong way around.

            Glories is an excellent framework for a world where the Incanae still took an interest in things and were actively worshiped and many of the charms introduced were referencing the excesses of First Age Exalts while DotFA was more interested in the crazy power of high essence even if the setting it'd created for First Age Solars couldn't really stand up to them running around.


            Assorted homebrew goes here.
            Please help the Ex3 wiki grow. Even if it's just posting existing homebrew there so there's less chance of losing it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Meianno Yuurei View Post
              Really, most questions about "Why didn't this happen" can be answered by stepping back and asking: Are you inquiring about the setting as perceived by an omniscient, all-knowing, perfectly prescient and sage genius who knows everything you have ever read in any book ever? A Perfect Rational Actor whose every action is driven towards optimization of some goal?

              If so, stop that. The Exalted of the First Age squabbled, adventured, warred, reveled, loved, and wept. They built empires, forged wonders, united kingdoms, made fortunes, and generally did a lot of Really Cool Adventure stuff.

              They were not nerds who sat around thinking on the most efficient way to optimize dragon-blooded breeding for maximum output, and even if they were, and I realize that 2e did not encourage this idea, the Dragon-Blooded were also Exalted. They had squabbles and adventures and wars and revelries and love triangles and sorrows to attend to! They built their own kingdoms, forged wonders of their own, became rich beyond mortal imagining, and did their own Really Cool Adventure stuff, even if it was slightly less Epic and Mythic by dint of being limited by their lesser power relative to the Solars.

              2e seems to have given you the impression that the Dragon-Blooded were mindless slaves devotedly loyal to the Solars, willing to spend their entire 500 year lifespans meditating on mountains and focusing their essence to take a gamble at dying in order to become marginally more powerful.

              If this is true, 2e was wrong.
              Not mindless, but unknowing slaves nonetheless.
              Drams of the First Age portrays Dragon Blooded as very loyal, and only after many centuries their faith in the solars started to fade, also, they are supposed to get around a thousand years of lifespan if they take care of themselves, and since there has been 3000 years in the age of dreams, and the usurpation went around 4000-5000 years since the primordial war, there hasn't been that many generations of DBs since then, at least in 2e, one that lived the primordial war is even alive , Gauto I think.

              Now, we can't argue which portrayal of the Dbs is better, since that is pretty much relative to every person's subjective tastes.

              But we can do talk about why they SHOULDN'T be portrayed as loyal fanatical servants to the side of their solar masters, who had a lot of brainwashing and mind altering charms, and indoctrinated them since birth as per their role of generals-army commanders.
              We must take note, that 2e doesn't portray all DBs in that light, in fact, some of them even mildly rebelled against their solar masters, refusing to serve their master's reincarnations and creating their own gentes to serve another purpose besides being an army for their superiors.
              Last edited by Cruzwindt; 08-09-2018, 09:25 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                No, 2e was pretty much objectively, undeniably wrong in painting them as slaves and boosting up Solars to the point where they could brainwash someone by saying "hi" with no recourse to resist, but then, this is the 2e social system being a heap of manure [comparable to most social systems but still terrible].

                This was a consequence of 2e essentially designing most systems so Solar charms were required for baseline competence and no one else was able to match Solars [and thus have baseline competence], which transformed all competitions from where they should have been, the equivalent of a footrace between Flash and Superman [both are really really fast but there's a definite winner] into a footrace between three pretty fast athletes [the three Solaroids], two people hand-walking without legs [sidereals and lunars], and one violently twitching quadriplegic torso [DBs].

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well I will not, and can't, argue that the social combat system of 2ed is good, it was BAD. I see what they were trying to do, make a system which allows to actually convince others instead of conversation being merely plot lines. But they did it wrong.
                  I'm talking more about the fluff of how 2ed portrays DBs. Also you cannot convince everyone of everything, since their motivation protects them from many things.

                  So, why shouldn't the beings created to be the soldiers of the solars, not be at their command ?
                  Last edited by Cruzwindt; 08-09-2018, 10:29 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Cruzwindt because that deprotagonizes the Dragonblooded. It renders them nothing but NPC’s whose lives are at the whim of Solars. This is again as Meianno Yuurei points out one of the big problems with 2e DBs from their 1E or 3e counterparts. It reduces their prominence in the story of Creation to make it literally impossible to really tell compelling stories with Dragonblooded and any solaroid splat.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Even by Second Edition standards, people of that mindset would not reach Essence 6.

                      I mean, people of a much more independent mindset are probably not often getting higher than Essence 4 either, but that's a whole other thing.


                      I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                      Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                      https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yep, that's the answer. The scheme fails in step 4 when the dragonblooded become enlightened enough to go "what the fuck am I doing" and fuck off to do their own thing.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is also the kind of thing that might make other Celestial Exalts take pre-emptive action against you because this is the behaviour of someone who intends to make a massive power grab.




                          Assorted homebrew goes here.
                          Please help the Ex3 wiki grow. Even if it's just posting existing homebrew there so there's less chance of losing it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                            Even by Second Edition standards, people of that mindset would not reach Essence 6.

                            I mean, people of a much more independent mindset are probably not often getting higher than Essence 4 either, but that's a whole other thing.
                            Well, I get what you're saying, but I think that you have too high standards for 2ed then, I remember a few character DBs with that mindset with essence 5 lol.

                            Then again, protagonism is a weird think to talk about that's most of it in the GM of the game and in the kind of story you're playing. The power level and capacity of it seems a little irrelevant to that in my opinion. A Player character DB doesn't have to be any less protagonist than a Solar, on certain kind of games.
                            Dragon Bloods have always been the numberless kinds of exalted , there can be as many dragon blood as the setting needs for, and that's been since 1ed if I'm not wrong. It's hard to think that there are any numbers of protagonists having their impact on the worlds at the same time.

                            Sorry but it's hard to understand the individualism- level of protagonist concept for me. I don't see that much correlation between the two. The less individualistic character can be a protagonist starting off his own adventures, and vice versa, the most individualistic characters can be NPCs.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cruzwindt View Post

                              Well, I get what you're saying, but I think that you have too high standards for 2ed then, I remember a few character DBs with that mindset with essence 5 lol.
                              I'd be interested in hearing more about this.

                              Originally posted by Cruzwindt
                              Then again, protagonism is a weird think to talk about that's most of it in the GM of the game and in the kind of story you're playing. The power level and capacity of it seems a little irrelevant to that in my opinion. A Player character DB doesn't have to be any less protagonist than a Solar, on certain kind of games.
                              Dragon Bloods have always been the numberless kinds of exalted , there can be as many dragon blood as the setting needs for, and that's been since 1ed if I'm not wrong. It's hard to think that there are any numbers of protagonists having their impact on the worlds at the same time.
                              This seems like a much stronger argument against having thousands of people with Essence 6.


                              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                              Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                              https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X