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Polishing Gold - what Solar Charms would you like to receive errata?

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  • Polishing Gold - what Solar Charms would you like to receive errata?

    In some cases, one might think a perfectly functional Charm is written in a misleading fashion and could use clarification; like how Monkey Leap Technique seems to supplement a Move or Disengage action (and therefore working within existing rules) rather than substituting for your movement action and venturing into uncharted territory in regards to what is permitted.

    In other cases, you might think that a Charm is a left-over relic from a previous iteration; like how Demon-Wasting Rush is in many respects an inferior version of Godspeed Steps (which doesn't count it as a prerequisite) with one particular advantage, but no synergy for knowing both Charms.

    And then there's people's complaints about the Crafting Project slots of the Craft trees.

    For my own part, I wonder if Hammer Thunder Hammer shouldn't have split off the option to punch enemies straight up into the sky (or ceilings, for double falling damage) as a upgrade Charm that reused the name "Dome-Shattering Smite".


    The original developers and writers did a fantastic job, and Third Edition doesn't need any errata nearly on the level of First Edition's "power combat" or Second Edition's "Dawn Solution", but nothing is perfect and the first book always has to learn the Edition's lessons too quickly.

    EDIT: Oh, yeah, and someone leaked the playtesting document and got the tests shut down prematurely. That probably didn’t help.

    So, what are the Charms that you think need another evaluation, and what do you think should be done to them?
    Last edited by Sunder the Gold; 08-14-2018, 09:14 AM.


    Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

    My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

  • #2
    The charms that are clearly not solar, like the lore prophesy charm, and celestial bliss trick (which was a sidereal ability before). And a bunch of charms that are unclear and had to be verified how they work because the wording was unclear.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
      The charms that are clearly not solar, like the lore prophesy charm, and celestial bliss trick (which was a sidereal ability before).
      It might still be one again in a modified form, you know. In any case, if sex is practice in which someone can excel... Solars get to go there. There wasn't any thematic protection that it necessarily had, much as how Solars can train people to be better soldiers or sailors, and there is also a power that Sidereals got in The Captain that allowed them to train and organize soldiers and sailors, because the constellation is all about hard-assed discipline and overlaps with certain aspects of Solar Sail and War.
      Last edited by Saur Ops Specialist; 08-14-2018, 12:09 AM.

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      • #4
        I know that at one point the plan was definitely for both Solars and Sidereals to have Celestial Bliss Trick. Obviously that might have changed.

        (Personally I feel that while Solars can definitely do "put someone under your sway via sex", I always felt that the somewhat clinical and transactional nature of Celestial Bliss Trick was meant to be a commentary on Venus' views on sex. The difference is a bit subtle - Solar sex charms, like most of Solar performance, should be, thematically, more "I'm so awesomely sexy that it's natural for you to want to serve me!", much like X-Seducing-Demon-Dance. Whereas Celestial Bliss Trick feels like it cuts away the romance and goes straight to overtly stating "sex is a way to control people.")

        But to take a step back, that's probably just because I know it was originally a Sidereal power. If it had been in the Solar charmset first, I doubt anyone would have said "oh, this looks like it should be a Sidereal thing!"
        Last edited by Aquillion; 08-14-2018, 12:46 AM.

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        • #5
          Wyld Shaping technique needs a complete overhaul. I've encountered about half a dozen different ways that people have interpreted that single charm leading to thousands of square miles of differentiation in result. Plus wyld called weapon probably shouldn't be able to pull an Artifact N/A weapon out of the wyld period.


          Check out my homebrew exalt: The Fabulists - Chosen of the Raksha here

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          • #6
            Racing Hare Method and Mountain-Crossing Leap need proper long distance speeds given.

            That Brawl charm for Feats of Strength needs to be rewritten to work with the Feats of Strength system.


            "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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            • #7
              Elusive Dream Defense is very underwhelming and at times can be a disadvantage since defensive intimacies can grant more bonus then offensive ones. I feel it should also add 1 non charm defense to both guile and resolve for the rest of the scene and maybe an essence 5 upgrade that denys essence successes gained through either non charm dice added through magic or successes added through non 10 doubles or successes gained from numbers less than 7 from magic.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by WalkingEye View Post
                Elusive Dream Defense is very underwhelming and at times can be a disadvantage since defensive intimacies can grant more bonus then offensive ones. I feel it should also add 1 non charm defense to both guile and resolve for the rest of the scene and maybe an essence 5 upgrade that denys essence successes gained through either non charm dice added through magic or successes added through non 10 doubles or successes gained from numbers less than 7 from magic.
                That second option way too strong. You might as well block all magic at that point. Cancelling out automatic successes or dice from a charm wouldn't be too bad.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
                  That second option way too strong. You might as well block all magic at that point. Cancelling out automatic successes or dice from a charm wouldn't be too bad.
                  I can see that but at that essence level for a once per story charm i feel it might be needed to overcome some High essence gods charms on the scale of the elemental dragons Censors geas charm. Solars need these super charms or how can they face things like the Ebon dragon in conversation. But your point is good. How about a charm that enhances it like you suggested instead but can then reset the charm or enhance it even more when faced with a truely dangerous foe.

                  new elusive dream defense same cost also grants 1 auto noncharm defense to your social defense.

                  new charm. Name needed. enhances elusive dream defense allowing the solar to subtract up to essence successes for every 1 in her opponent's roll up to essence times during the scene. vs a foe who is at essence 6 + allow the solar to instead pay 10m 1wp to have the guile or resolve be added as non charm.vs them for the scene.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                    Racing Hare Method and Mountain-Crossing Leap need proper long distance speeds given.
                    Sorry about that. I noted it during the playtest but I didn't make a big issue over it because at the time I assumed we were eventually going to get an explaination of out of combat speeds measured range bands when we got to travel sorcery like Stormwind Rider. Instead the playtest got ended early and as you saw Stormwind Rider's speed ended up being conveyed in miles per hour.




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                    • #11
                      Maybe I'm misunderstanding them, but Bottomless Wellspring Approach and Lore-Inducing Concentration seem pretty underpowered to me. I wonder if they're meant to be speed-bumps on the way to Wyld-Shaping Technique? On WST itself, I don't know that I'd go so far as to say that it needs a complete overhaul, but some clarification on the details would be welcome.

                      Clarification on Awakening Eye supplementing "a Join Battle roll with a free full (Perception + Awareness) Excellency" would be nice. I saw a few people asking about it in the Ask the Devs thread, and maybe it got a more definite answer than the first that I saw, but that thread's currently at 889 pages.

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                      • #12
                        I think Prophet-Uplifting Evocation could use some fleshing out. Like, how does their essence pool work? "four motes, plus up to five more". Does that mean they get an essence pool of between four and nine motes depending on what the solar felt like giving them, or is it a regular pool of four motes plus a five mote pool that the solar has to refill themselves?

                        And what can they do with it? 3e doesn't really like giving people an essence pool for it's own sake. These guys are supposed to be prophets of a solar. They need more than just one integrity charm.

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                        • #13
                          The full free excellency was pretty definitely addressed in relation to another thread a bit ago. You get +X charm dice for 0m/etc.applied to the roll with all the normal restrictions on Excellency Charm dice. If your Perception is higher than your Wits, you don't roll more dice than you'd be able to with just boosting JB with the Awareness Excellency, because the base dice-pool still caps. Likewise if you have lower Perception than Wits, since Perception is specified (not all Charms force a specific roll on you), you can't add more dice than Perception + Awareness despite not hitting the cap. And like any other Excellency, if you have other sources of Charm dice/successes already, they apply to the cap of how much you can add.

                          Was there still some lingering confusion about how those are supposed to work?

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                          • #14
                            I never had any problem with "roll X with a free full excellency". That seems obvious: you get to use your excellency for free, with as many dice as you can get like normal.

                            I did wonder about some of the charms that say "roll a full Int+Craft excellency" or something like that. Because it seems like you roll the excellency, but not the normal dice?
                            That's more a clarification than an errata though.

                            Sorry about that. I noted it during the playtest but I didn't make a big issue over it because at the time I assumed we were eventually going to get an explaination of out of combat speeds measured range bands when we got to travel sorcery like Stormwind Rider. Instead the playtest got ended early and as you saw Stormwind Rider's speed ended up being conveyed in miles per hour.
                            Unless you were the one who leaked things, I can't really blame you for that. It is the kind of thing where you assume there'll be an explanation somewhere, especially as there's more than one charm that talk about moving multiple range bands outside combat, and you'd assume there'll be some "Range bands generally equal about X feet" like most games do.

                            I assume with Stormwind Rider and the flying cloud (I can't remember what it's called right now), they're written a different way because a different person wrote them.
                            Though the Ride long-distance charm is also written a different way (to both). Though maybe it has to, to take into account the different speed of different animals (I remember the 2nd ed charm where riding an elephant was way faster over long distances than riding a horse).


                            I can't remember it, but someone might know the name: There's a Dodge charm where when they ambush you, your Evasion is like 2+the number of 1s they roll, something like that. And if you reach your full Evasion, you can boost it further with Dodge charms. Which means people with a lower Evasion are better against ambushes than people with high Evasion, which is kind of stupid.
                            Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 08-14-2018, 08:53 AM.


                            "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by WalkingEye View Post
                              I can see that but at that essence level for a once per story charm i feel it might be needed to overcome some High essence gods charms on the scale of the elemental dragons Censors geas charm. Solars need these super charms or how can they face things like the Ebon dragon in conversation. But your point is good. How about a charm that enhances it like you suggested instead but can then reset the charm or enhance it even more when faced with a truely dangerous foe.

                              new elusive dream defense same cost also grants 1 auto noncharm defense to your social defense.

                              new charm. Name needed. enhances elusive dream defense allowing the solar to subtract up to essence successes for every 1 in her opponent's roll up to essence times during the scene. vs a foe who is at essence 6 + allow the solar to instead pay 10m 1wp to have the guile or resolve be added as non charm.vs them for the scene.
                              I wouldn't let there be any scene long defense increase in the game. Solars don't have one in with physical attacks. They shouldn't have a socialize one. Especially not with the the mote generation from combat. It should be motes per attack.

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