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  • #16

    To punch creatures of darkness super good, get Golden Jannisary Style. To produce Artifact weapons from normal objects, you can go DPC or just stunt around with Glorious Solar Saber.

    To punch spirits, grab some Occult.

    To punch the Motes out of people and heal or harm them with essence infusions, get some Lore.



    Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
    Except it cannot by it's own reading. That is what MA is for explicitly. Brawl is raw power it can't be understated as anything but raw damage. It can look graceful and it can look stylish but it has no proper technique behind it.
    So if I have Brawl 5, and Lore 5, and I teach my students Brawl, what are they learning? "At close range, kick 'im in the shins and punch for the kidneys" is a technique, and so is "probe for weaknesses with jabs - hold your hands like this, twist your hips like this, strike and recover."

    Anybody with more than two dots in Brawl probably has techniques, even if they're brutally pragmatic self-taught ones, just because there are only so many good ways to hit people and you've worked most of them out.

    Comment


    • #17
      First I just want to point out that yes this is changing some of the existing character of solar brawl as basically the simplest charms to make room for martial arts to do everything fancy. However I'm at least staying in theme for what's possible with solar charms. And I really get tired of this idea that solar charms are basic and not explicitly Supernatural. Again you only have to look at the pure melee tree to see that you have people doing stuff with any muscle powered weapon that's frankly ridiculous and impossible. Especially Corona of Radiance or edge of sunlight.

      the basic idea is that you're punching with the power of the Sun as was used as a justification in HHamon.
      it is true that I don't allow for a lot of the Finesse and tricks that happen.
      That is for later charms.
      But really this is just supposed to expand your targets and the effects that you can do. Basing things on Motes is complicated to convey. And it leads to some tracking.
      But it's just part of the thing you would already be tracking in combat, the gaining and loss of motes in terms of both free, committed, and spent. I'm trying to work with something that people are already doing. The greatest complication is figuring out what Motes are no longer your own and whatever system you use to track your Motes just needs to add a simple value. I once heard that some people track things by little beads while they're in combat. So just make sure you keep them separate or you use Golden beads or just put your beads and a small circle labeled G or S to indicate what's happened.

      of the effects that this one charm does what is it that you feel needs to be broken down into multiple effects?
      . Most of the complications that I'm describing are resultant. What happens if you are a radiated and how does this work. And I also needed to indicate how suffusing your body would work in grapples and it felt weird if it got less powerful or there weren't side effects. This is akin to how ccorona of Radiance not just lights you up not just allows you to fire sword beans but also gives you a fear effect and so on.


      Again this is not made for 3rd Edition. While learning from second edition, it nor first were loaded with solar scenelength brawl or unarmed charms. Ieditionsolar brawl/hero tends to be favoring combos. So you want to spend willpower and lots of motes all at once. That's the other drawback of this charm. A large commitment leaves you with less Motes in order to freely activate combos bused on doubling your damage, acting fast, and knocking back. In fact this intentionally makes it easy to sacrifice damage for a hopefully longer term effect. And I hope at the very least seeing how that's in theme for boxing, the sweet science, does come to head

      you're making your punches effective at weakening someone at the cost of weakening the raw damage of your blows. This doesn't make your attacks much more accurate. Though it does increase the wideness of targets but not in terms of what's going to kill them. Being immaterial isn't an absolute defense. But it doesn't mean that you caused damage to a Target it just means that you can poison this with your light. Hell if someone's immaterial it won't even necessarily kill them. Just create a greater vulnerability in the event they spend the motes or commit them.

      The original brawl charms when notorious and how poorly they were written. They would have high skill requirements but the essence requirements in the first supplement sshot up too fast. But they stayed with the same effects. This had problems. Obviously there's only so many ways you can say this allows you to hit harder. But being more blatantly Supernatural is what happens when you increase in essence. Here is one blatant Supernatural effect that's in theme for solars. But that reference is a thing that sort of accepted. supercharging your body with your inner light and or Chi. In this case it's harmful to the enemies of creation but it does something else. A lot of solar brawl is geared towards one-on-one fights. This also allows you to make so your zero mmote -well without any further investment - attacks are harmful without necessarily being something like a scene length attack or damage adder

      it doesn't even directly and immediately incapacitate a Target. Just create well complications which is how a boxing match between two foes can go. You slowly work outta rhythm understand what they can or cannot do and utilize rope-a-dope.


      Last edited by Darmani; 08-22-2018, 08:09 AM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Darmani View Post
        First I just want to point out that yes this is changing some of the existing character of solar brawl as basically the simplest charms to make room for martial arts to do everything fancy. However I'm at least staying in theme for what's possible with solar charms. And I really get tired of this idea that solar charms are basic and not explicitly Supernatural. Again you only have to look at the pure melee tree to see that you have people doing stuff with any muscle powered weapon that's frankly ridiculous and impossible. Especially Corona of Radiance or edge of sunlight.
        I should say by "explictly supernatural" I meant more...wierd. Brawl charms at the moment generally just punch--they punch with techniques, stlye, and strength (lets not get into the MA vs Brawl debate here--After all, DB's brawl has a rather famous anime martial arts technique in it). The charm feels like it could be solar, but I think...hm. I was going to say it should be occult or lore, but it occurs to me we have anti-creature of darkness melee....hmmm...I kinda think the way you have it working, where you suffuse someone with light in a sickening way could work in brawl. Make that one charm that cancels a scene long charm a prequisite. Yeah, basics is fine.

        Side note, do you have the DB book? They have a brawl charm (the one I mentioned above), where you invest points in someone with one blow and then cash those in later. I think something like that might work here to repersent infusing a body with Solar energy--to a less lethal effect of course.

        ...ah, but this is for 2nd edition? I'm sorry, that wasn't clear from my reading...or is it 1st? You say it's not meant for 3rd, but 2nd doesn't have Brawl...


        I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Epee102 View Post

          I should say by "explictly supernatural" I meant more...wierd. Brawl charms at the moment generally just punch--they punch with techniques, stlye, and strength (lets not get into the MA vs Brawl debate here--After all, DB's brawl has a rather famous anime martial arts technique in it). The charm feels like it could be solar, but I think...hm. I was going to say it should be occult or lore, but it occurs to me we have anti-creature of darkness melee....hmmm...I kinda think the way you have it working, where you suffuse someone with light in a sickening way could work in brawl. Make that one charm that cancels a scene long charm a prequisite. Yeah, basics is fine.

          Side note, do you have the DB book? They have a brawl charm (the one I mentioned above), where you invest points in someone with one blow and then cash those in later. I think something like that might work here to repersent infusing a body with Solar energy--to a less lethal effect of course.

          ...ah, but this is for 2nd edition? I'm sorry, that wasn't clear from my reading...or is it 1st? You say it's not meant for 3rd, but 2nd doesn't have Brawl...
          It is meant for 1st, but I followed and learned from 2nd edition but haven't read 3rd.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Amayad View Post
            So if I have Brawl 5, and Lore 5, and I teach my students Brawl, what are they learning? "At close range, kick 'im in the shins and punch for the kidneys" is a technique, and so is "probe for weaknesses with jabs - hold your hands like this, twist your hips like this, strike and recover."

            Anybody with more than two dots in Brawl probably has techniques, even if they're brutally pragmatic self-taught ones, just because there are only so many good ways to hit people and you've worked most of them out.
            You're arguing with the text not me. I'm telling you how the book defines both skills and brawl isn't a specific set of techniques. It's just raw techique. It's not at all a specific martial art and you can't confuse someone using brawl charms with MA charms. That's the entire point of the division. If brawl were just another martial art there woild have been no point dividing them.

            If it's meant for first edition, you could just make it a permenant charm. However, the part of the ripple's technique reminds me of the CMA' initation charm.

            It really does feel like a bunch of different techniques. To the point where putting your light into someone scour motes is more apt as an occult or lore charm.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
              Except it cannot by it's own reading. That is what MA is for explicitly. Brawl is raw power it can't be understated as anything but raw damage. It can look graceful and it can look stylish but it has no proper technique behind it.

              Yes, Brawl can't do anything but punch and has no proper techniques and that's why it has a charm where you absorb your enemies force and redirect it into an energy blast at them. Or when you mark your enemy with a Sigil of Energy that lets you draw them back to you whenever you want.

              Brawl may not be something you can 'confuse' for an MA, but saying it has no basis in anything but randomly throwing windmill punches is forcibly limiting it for no reason.

              It's like saying a Melee user can't use Iaido because Single Point exists, or can't use two swords because Steel Devil exists.
              Last edited by Flare; 08-22-2018, 01:47 PM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Flare View Post

                Yes, Brawl can't do anything but punch and has no proper techniques and that's why it has a charm where you absorb your enemies force and redirect it into an energy blast at them. Or when you mark your enemy with a Sigil of Energy that lets you draw them back to you whenever you want.

                Brawl may not be something you can 'confuse' for an MA, but saying it has no basis in anything but randomly throwing windmill punches is forcibly limiting it for no reason.

                It's like saying a Melee user can't use Iaido because Single Point exists, or can't use two swords because Steel Devil exists.
                Solar brawl is all over the place. It's not at all a style but a hapazard collection of techniques which look different per solar. Two people practicing a martial art look the same. Two people fighting with brawl are absolutely different.

                The ripple has always been a techique you could pass down, learn and teach. One of the major ripple uses is temporarily teaching someone who doesn't understand what the ripple is by punching them. That makes it something that shouldn't just be solar only.
                Last edited by Epimetheus; 08-22-2018, 01:53 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
                  Solar brawl is all over the place. It's not at all a style but a hapazard collection of techniques which look different per solar. Two people practicing a martial art look the same. Two people fighting with brawl are absolutely different.

                  The ripple has always been a techique you could pass down, learn and teach. One of the major ripple uses is temporarily teaching someone who doesn't understand what the ripple is by punching them. That makes it something that shouldn't just be solar only.
                  This is about taking Ripple as an inspiration of solar charms
                  Not modeling to put it into the Exalted setting as is.
                  Moreover even if it WAS a supernatural martial art mortals would not practice it like in Jojos.

                  I am changing or poking at some of the limitations placed on Solar Brawl but just looking at Dragonblooded and Sidereal Brawl tells us they aren't absolute. Looking at other Solar combat charms tells me this isn't possible.

                  Now, I comprehend you do not like this adaptation or change, but those are my aims and you arguing against them in a customization thread isn't helping. At least not this way. I am not going to make a martial arts tree. We are doing this with Solars and Solar native unarmed charms.

                  However if you want to or have modelled a martial art for Ripple/Hamon I would be curious to see it in your own thread.



                  ----

                  Now I am trying to finish the refinement here. Unfortunately while I think it reads a bit better I haven't made it much shorter.

                  Not sure what precise effect should be "split into three charms


                  Sunstroke Pankration
                  Brawl 5 Essence 3
                  Cost: 2 motes plus up to brawl+essence
                  Type: Simple Duration: Scenelength

                  The solar pugilist suffuses his body with the more intense light of the Sun. The Lawgiver’s punches deliver an infusion of radiant energy when the Lawgiver’s attack is blocked unarmed or soaked. This radiant infusion effects the immaterial, the mortal, and the supernatural in distinct ways.

                  Track the radiant searing energy infused into a target as motes. The motes infused will be equal to the number the user invested beyond two put into a target’s pool, unless the pugilist foregoes all damage (but not secondary effects) of the blow which adds the sacrificed raw damage to the infusion.

                  When someone spends the Motes infused by this charm they become vulnerable to and increase the difficulty for any stamina based checks or actions by 1 per such motes spent in the scene. This persists until a scene of rest (as deemed appropriate for respiration) is had. The motes inflicted by this charm only take up empty space in the pool unless the supernatural target is immaterial or an enemy of creation, or the attack is from a grapple. Then they replace any motes in the pool.

                  Only skilled escapes of grapple by way of control and skill avoid sudden spike of infusion from this charm. Escape by some way other than by their control of the grapple inflicts the target with twice the Solar’s Essence in Motes.

                  A Sunstroke Pankrator may always choose to sacrifice all their raw damage, not secondary effects, of their strike into the mote effect.
                  In a grapple damage and mote effect are shared. That is to say the infusion is increased by damage without sacrificing the damage the grapple could do though the Pankrator can sacrifice grapple damage for committed mote plus 2x raw damage infusion.

                  A solar cannot increase the commitment to this charm after it's been made. It has to be canceled in full then recommitted with the full amount.

                  It said that this charm was used for punishing recalcitrant gods as well as beating down the trash mobs of the enemies of creation and the Lawgiver

                  For Mortal creatures if the number of Motes infused in their pool/body exceeds their Stamina. roll to avoid succumbing to a heat stroke or similar complication. When fail they start to suffersunstroke experiencing fainting, seizures, blindness, vomiting and so on.
                  This radiation has a more complicated effect with supernatural creatures. In their case the Motes are infused in the empty spaces of their pool. Existing motes are not replaced/effected unless the target is immaterial, in grapple, or an enemy of creation/Creature of Darkness.

                  The supernatural target makes a stamina check for supernatural sunstroke when;
                  • The infused motes exceed the targets own motes in number
                  • The motes that have been infused with this charm are committed to an effect
                  • They are held within a grapple by the Sunstroke Pankrator at the start of the turn

                  If they lose the sunstroke check they vomit their own motes by the amount failed. Supernatural creatures spew their own Essence as to their lunch. In the case that this exceeds their free essence mote then the ones committed to charms or artifacts are expelled and so those effects are canceled with the whole amount of motes committed to the individual effect/charm/whatever lost at once.

                  If a supernatural creature only has motes in their pool from the Solar that's when the target starts hemorrhaging a single point of their Essence score every time they lose the check. While this will not affect blessings or spells that have been cast on them, innate traits granted by Supernatural nature as well as charms or such things as being a magical serpent or an elemental will be affected, zombies become immobilized or similar issues. Demigods are likely to just become as Mortal if reduced below Essence one, and then the infusion will affect them as if they are mortal creature.


                  Originally posted by Its Temporary, Recovery

                  This is just a temporary condition. They will recover their Essence much akin to mote respiration although it will be as if they're refilling their mote pool from
                  their adjusted score. Once they exceeded the adjusted score they go up back to the next level they lost and so on until they're back at the strength they once had.
                  This also applies to any infusion.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Epee102 View Post

                    I should say by "explictly supernatural" I meant more...wierd. Brawl charms at the moment generally just punch--they punch with techniques, stlye, and strength (lets not get into the MA vs Brawl debate here--After all, DB's brawl has a rather famous anime martial arts technique in it). The charm feels like it could be solar, but I think...hm. I was going to say it should be occult or lore, but it occurs to me we have anti-creature of darkness melee....hmmm...I kinda think the way you have it working, where you suffuse someone with light in a sickening way could work in brawl. Make that one charm that cancels a scene long charm a prequisite.
                    That only happens if they fail the sunstroke check which only happens if
                    They have more inflicted motes than regular
                    They committed the motes inflicted on them
                    Or they are in a grapple.

                    Not sure how to model it as its own separate charm as its cumulative effect of heavy application of this one. the lack of ease is the point, actually, Getting hit is threatening, weakening, it could cause complications. But it isn't a one shot kill or no more "instant badtouch" than say "Heaven's Thunder Hammer" or "Crashing-Wave Throw" or Ox Stunning and Knock Out Blow are each much MUCH more dangerously direct.
                    Part of the thing here is.. well creating various forks for player and target so you can and must make a decision that will affect your options down the road. Afterall ostensibly nothing's preventing a Creature of Darkness from taking in all the rays and committing their motes unless having that energy in you leads to some downside.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I suppose my issue comes from the fact that you said practicing the hamon. Which implies you want those specific set of techniques. if you just want to punch light into people just upgrade adamant fists of battle.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Ornery Sheep Play
                        Cost: 6 motes
                        Duration: Scene
                        Type: Simple
                        Minimum Brawl: 4
                        Minimum Essence: 2
                        Prerequisites: Heaven’s Thunder Hammer,[custom charm]

                        Add the user’s strength for the purposes of determining all rolls to induce or cause or resist knockdown to his attacks for the scene. When thrown add user’s strength to subject’s difficulty to maintain balance.

                        [Need Name]
                        Brawl: 2; Essence: 2;
                        Price: 5m;
                        Duration: Scene

                        For every five feet you move between a feat of strength or attack add 1 to your strength score until the limit of your weight (Str+Athl to lift you)
                        Becomes permenant at Brawl 6.

                        Cleaving Straight
                        Brawl: 3; Essence: 2;
                        Price: 3m;
                        Duration: Essence turns + varies

                        Reduce a point of defense, dodge, parry, soak, or exotic effects from magic (Dolorious reflection or SAE) for every yard covered inbetween an attack or jump or climb. Extra successes do not add to damage and gains are lost when jump or climb (like with arms wall running okay), descent/falling counts but 'resets' the gain when jump or climb or similar. The buildup time can be extended by committing additional 3 motes for another Essence turns, this does not count against charm usage. If you reduce the armor (or an object's) soak to zero each additional point acts as a multiplier for attack successes (for other charms/effects than adding to damage) or reduce damage from contact, like with fiery being, a porcupine, or falling damage.

                        (thinking about allow this to have a high essence auto upgrade to allow you to spend charms to the straight, it seems "bypass combo system for it is terrible" is the ultimate power in this game and thus enabling it with some on limited charms is a good thing)

                        Disaster Mastery
                        Brawl: 5; Essence: 4;
                        Price: -
                        Duration: Permenant

                        When superstrong characters do stuff as application of strenght as a trick (Hulk quakes earth, or smack hands to shockwave out stuff, and so on)
                        This lets you do this to target or make disasters or effects with the difficulty of the save the challenge

                        Basically the idea here is that this is how a solar martial artist imitates all those Elemental effects that are taken as a given when someone has super powerful martial arts. They're also meant to be a bit crude. As in obviously you can make a Maelstrom in the sea but it's not going to be equal to whatever a water aspect or a water Elemental would pull off period duration would be increased by drawing from damage as with other statistics of the effect.

                        It also lets you effectively increase the range and the abilities of your stunting through strength and attack. When someone meets into a natural Hazard or event they can then just attack it and then describe how their damage fixes or ameliorates what they were attacking

                        Gut busting ripple

                        Brawl: 5; Essence: 2;
                        Price: 4m;
                        Duration: instant

                        You know those Shockwave attacks people are always doing with their super strong? Yeah this is that for solars. Again it's based off of being skillful with her Force. The idea is that it changes depending on the medium broadly being based off of the five elements of exalted
                        When it strikes someone they roll Stamina plus Athletics in order to stay on their feet. may divide attack between attack and a push
                        Earth: range audible to a target touching adjacent solid structure. 1/2 damage. Assume default
                        Water: range if can locate. Full damage if touching same water. No more than movement range if outside outside/not touching same/shared body of water. May effect more than one target at a time if in strength yards of target or number of times equal strength (this is split up for the attack)
                        Fire: snuffs or reduces intensity of source or adds to it then induces adjusted flame effect to those in range of its heat. If the attack would snuff the fire cause a ring of explosions tthatcan be dodged may be parried with stunt or charm. This has a range of the attacks raw damage in yards but the damage is the typical damage of that fire, the solar can control who subject to the shockwave, as always
                        Air: this charm cannot propogate through air without Sovreign Smoke Rebuking Te but if attack an opponent in mid air has a lingering and devasting effect on the organs of balance of the target. They roll Stam+Athletics check after every move action (when stop moving or change position, or jump, or land) for the number of success of the attack parried or applied to character in turns.
                        Wood/Organic/ofthebody: enhances blows to anyone touching object and self
                        Sovreign Smoke Rebuking Te
                        Brawl: 5; Essence: 5;
                        Price: special
                        Duration: Permenant/indefinite


                        Also called the "divine art of halting air"
                        Solar gains unity of body and spirit with his or her artform such that no target beyond their rebuke. No matter the composition of their target or attack it is sstruck or held soundly and true or pushed aside with not more effort than normal and with the intended effect. Unlike Spirit Walking of the Immaculates this doesn't let you see the immaterial. but you can smell and feel them, albeit indistinctly as through a barrier or gloves or numbing..
                        Your attacks affect those of bodies as solid as tempered steel or strange as of jelly or sand with no loss of effectiveness from such nature.
                        The supernaturally immaterial are also effected though differently with the damage of such attacks having the effects like Ox Stunning Blow and lasting for a similar duration to the minimum of the turn and secondary effects from charms, knockback, grapples, trips, or other effects crossing over.

                        finally in addition to their charm use a solar may sacrifice any physical attribute to enhance the power of their attacks as well as range or other effectiveness, the solar using their movements displacing pressure to delivery their attacks

                        Significant Hearty Swat
                        (its the buddha palm for solars)
                        [formula goes here]
                        enhances
                        accuracy, range, defense, rate, area of effect (number of targets or actual area?) one of these auto upgrades with every attribute spent. Not sure which.

                        [spoiler=Defensive]

                        Grasping Hand Technique

                        Cost: 3 motes
                        Type: Reflexive
                        Duration: Instant
                        Min. Brawl: 3
                        Min. Essence: 2
                        Prereqs: Thunderclap Rush Technique

                        The character reaches out as an opponent attempts to strike her, and removes her weapon. If the character is attacked by a weapon, she may make an immediate disarm attempt against its' wielder, which is resolved as normal. If the attempt succeeds, the attack fails automatically. The character may make this attempt barehanded without danger. This Charm is considered to be a parry, and may not be used with a parry, although a dodge may be attempted before or after it.


                        Hook Hand Approach

                        Cost: 2+ motes
                        Type: Supplemental
                        Duration: Instant
                        Min. Brawl: 3
                        Min. Essence: 2
                        Prereqs: Ferocious Jab

                        The character's hand moves in a blur, grasping an opponent's weapon. For every mote spent past the second, add one die to a disarm attempt by the character; in addition, the opponent's reflexive Wits + Melee roll is at a difficulty penalty equal to the character's Essence.


                        Level Field Attitude

                        Cost: 6 motes, 1 Willpower
                        Type: Reflexive
                        Duration: One Scene
                        Min. Brawl: 5
                        Min. Essence: 3
                        Prereqs: Grasping Hand Technique, Hook Hand Approach

                        No weapon may strike the character; any attempt is met with fierce retribution. As long as the character is unarmed, she may make a free disarm attempt against any weapon which attacks her for the remainder of the scene. This disarm attempt is considered to be a parry, and may not be combined with a parry


                        [/spoiler]

                        Hip checks tthigh, thigh checks hip
                        Cost: 5 motes
                        Duration: one turn
                        Type: reflexive

                        Instantly allows to break a grapple or end one pushing aside an opponent by ssstrength*2 ffeet with the effect of ornery sheep play on balance. if in control of grapple when used may do so adding to throw with the effects of heavens thunder hammer on knockback.

                        Salt Under-hoof Action
                        Cost: 3 motes
                        Duration: Instant
                        Type: Reflexive
                        Min. Brawl: 3
                        Min Essence: 1
                        Prereqs: Sledgehammer Fist Punch

                        This charm can provide or enhance an attack against lower or prone target. If a target is suffering from the penalties of being prone or at least -/+2 penalty/difficulty due to position or, as a general guideline for the ST for applicability, if the Exalt’s knees are above the target’s head before the attack is made this charm applies.
                        A character rushes to strike his indisposed target. It is defended against (however the target can in their position see Prone condition pg 235) normally but due to the magic of this charm enhancing the Exalt’s superior positioning and control of his weight in applying the attack add his Strength to an attack’s minimum post-soak damage dice. Distance matters not and an Exalt using this charm may close it between any foe subject to this charm in an instant. Against inanimate objects, that qualify though this automatically includes the floor and even (non-animate) corpses, the charm additionally counts the Exalted’s entire attack pool as automatically successful without any penalties counting toward the attack

                        Pugilist’s Knuckled Banquet
                        Cost: 3 motes, 1 Willpower
                        Duration: Instant
                        Type: Reflexive
                        Min. Brawl: 3
                        Min Essence: 1
                        Prereqs: Cock Jeers Fox

                        While under the effects of this charm a successfully landed blow can be as nourishing as bottle of water after a desert march.
                        The brawler can convert points of raw damage from an attack that hits into motes of essence. The amount can be as much as he wants but this lowers the damage of an attack on a one to one basis.

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