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How to Put a Band-Aid on Infernals

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  • Blackwell
    replied
    Originally posted by Morangias View Post
    An idea that's much quicker than moving the Charms around until they form coherent Ability trees:

    Go through each Charm in sequence and assign an Ability to it without altering it's placement in the tree. Make it so Charm costs are based not on favored Yozi, but favored Ability.

    This makes the Yozis into theme-based "Charm clouds", not unlike the task-based clouds of Alchemical Exalted. Anyone shooting for a specific effect may be forced to buy a few non-favored prerequisites, but he can get all the stuff he really needs for favored cost regardless of Yozi.

    Admittedly, it's just a rough, untested idea.
    Hm, interesting. My first thought was that it's not completely untested; 1e Lunars had something similar going on. My second thought was that it sucked when they did it, so why do it again. But then my third thought was, the main reason it sucked wasn't because of the favored pricing (though that also sucked), it was because you also needed to meet the Attribute minimums in Attributes you didn't favor. This neatly snips out that problem. Plus Infernals get 5 favored, which helps.

    I might put in a clause that your Caste Yozi's Charms always count as favored regardless of Ability. Slayers don't automatically favor Presence but I'll bet Malfeas has lots of Charms in it, for example.

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  • Lafing Cat
    replied
    In 2.0, having a perfect defense was all you needed for entry-level combat capabilities. So every Yozi has that. In 2.5, perfects are no longer a sustainable combat strategy, you want some soak on top of that, and only two yozi have soak charms, and one of those isn't in the main book. (And as you only get 2 favored yozi, this means that if you want to buy them at favored prices, you've got half your character freedoms locked up, vs 20% for e.g. a Solr or Abyssal.)

    For entry level combat level you can get by fine with just a big suit of artifact armor, but that doesn't necessarily mix with e.g. martial arts or character aesthetics.

    The *simplest* thing you can do is let people buy some artifacts that duplicate soak charms. Don't let them stack, and make sure they still have e.g. the mote cost and such, (and don't let them get like, whole charm trees this way, if they want tons of charms they should just be favoring the yozi)

    At highest level stuff, there's still issues with e.g. external penalties as bonus DV and DV-halvers as the best attack, but that's off-kilter for everyone not just Infernals.

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  • Dex Davican
    replied
    What are the "really awful ways" in which the Infernal Charmset is broken? I see references to every yozi having a perfect defense, but I could use an explanation of what that's breaking, since every Celestial Exalt-type has multiple perfect defenses accessible after two or three prereqs each.

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  • Morangias
    replied
    An idea that's much quicker than moving the Charms around until they form coherent Ability trees:

    Go through each Charm in sequence and assign an Ability to it without altering it's placement in the tree. Make it so Charm costs are based not on favored Yozi, but favored Ability.

    This makes the Yozis into theme-based "Charm clouds", not unlike the task-based clouds of Alchemical Exalted. Anyone shooting for a specific effect may be forced to buy a few non-favored prerequisites, but he can get all the stuff he really needs for favored cost regardless of Yozi.

    Admittedly, it's just a rough, untested idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • ZeroRegistry
    replied
    Malfeas can probably put a soak build as is.

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  • Saur Ops Specialist
    replied
    Originally posted by While My Guitar View Post
    This is about putting a Band-Aid on them, what you are suggesting is reconstructive surgery.
    Some of the trees line of quite well with reconstruction, though. You can put a lot of Cecelyne into Bureaucracy, Linguistics and Socialize (so much so, in fact, that she should have really been the patron of the Eclipse-analog for Infernals rather than the Ebon Dragon), Malfeas has lots of Presence and Resistance.

    Of course, some things would need major reconstruction, like Mind-Hand Manipulation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Limited Reagent
    replied
    Originally posted by Omicron View Post
    Sort all Infernal Charms into ability trees!

    *ducks for cover*
    I was ligit going to suggest making a few Infernal-only Charm trees that stem from no Yozi, maybe even with Ability mins, that cover the basics that the Yozi sets lack. Sort of like the heretical Charms, but less aggravating to get. That way you don't have Yozi that shouldn't necessarily have certain types of combat Charms with them (preserving Yozi flavor), but the Infernals themselves are fully covered.

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  • Jen
    replied
    Someone make these on the old forum, I remember that Revlid also have some Faith + Sand soak charms for Cece, and the old wiki also have some penalties-negator charms too IIRC.

    Guile-Spun Shadow Flesh
    Cost: — (+2m) ; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Permanent
    Keywords: None
    Duration: Permanent
    Prerequisite Charms: Witness to Darkness

    The Ebon Dragon is not merely Creation's ultimate liar but Creation's ultimate lie. Upon learning this charm the Infernal's body becomes the impossible stuff of material absence, it no longer draws its resilience from substance or physical might but from the Infernal's ability to fool the world into believing he exists. The Infernal's soak is now calculated using their Manipulation attribute instead of Stamina. Furthermore for a cost of 2m the Infernal may add (Essence + Dodge) to their bashing and lethal soak for the duration of a single attack, if the Infernal activates this power while in direct sunlight the true nature of what they have become is exposed for all to see. The charm becomes obvious as the Infernal is revealed to be nothing more than a walking, talking abyss with a human shape, pitch black from head to toe (save perhaps for glowing eyes at the player's discretion), the Infernal is shown not so much to resist damage as to absorb the force of a blow into the void they have become.


    Mocking Futile Heroics
    Cost: +1m ; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
    Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious
    Duration: Instant
    Prerequisite Charms: Guile-Spun Shadow Flesh

    The Ebon Dragon is a wretched coward who would prefer not to be struck at all, yet as much as it pains him to admit it this isn't always possible, even for him. Nevertheless he finds consolation when the finest efforts of Creation's heroes leave barely a scratch on him, allowing the Shadow of All Things to revel in their failure, disappointment and despair. Every mote spend on this charm removes one die from the post-soak damage of an attack against the Infernal, to a minimum of one die. Use of this charm causes writhing shadows and oily blackness to sprout from the fresh wound before they seamlessly knit the flesh back together. It is considered customary for the Infernal to taunt their adversary afterwards.

    If the attacker's Dodge MDV is lower than the number of motes spent on this defence the attacker's confidence is shattered causing them to suffer a -2 internal penalty to all actions for the remainder of the scene. Resisting this unnatural emotion effect costs one Willpower.


    Armoured in Corruption
    Cost: 5m ; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
    Keywords: Combo-OK
    Duration: One Scene
    Prerequisite Charms: Guile-Spun Shadow Flesh

    When the Ebon Dragon finds he has no choice but to enter battle he always does so with neither armour nor shield, he does not do this out of some sense of valour (the very concept being anathema to his craven heart) but because the foul miasma of degradation that surrounds him is the only defence he needs. All attacks against the Infernal have their minimum damage reduced by up to two dice for the duration of this charm unless the attack incorporates a holy effect.

    Furthermore while this charm is active if the infernal is attacked with a mundane weapon it is destroyed within the tenth step of the attack's resolution regardless of whether or not it hit the Infernal or inflicted any damage; the wielder might have suffered a sudden lapse in competence that caused them to critically mishandle the weapon, perhaps the weapon itself finally succumbed to a fatal yet unnoticed flaw or in extreme cases it might even have begun to spontaneously rust and decay.
    Last edited by Jen; 05-04-2014, 11:09 AM.

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  • Dezeroth
    replied
    I would say pretty much fluff up some parry, soak and dodge charms for the yozis

    and as far as swlihn being the only one to have a parry charm malfeas parries with his face

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  • While My Guitar
    replied
    Originally posted by Omicron View Post
    Sort all Infernal Charms into ability trees!

    *ducks for cover*
    This is about putting a Band-Aid on them, what you are suggesting is reconstructive surgery.

    Leave a comment:


  • Omicron
    replied
    Sort all Infernal Charms into ability trees!

    *ducks for cover*

    Leave a comment:


  • Oramus
    replied
    Originally posted by Daffiroth View Post
    Pretend Infernals don't exist. That fixes quite a lot of things very nicely.
    Like amputating someone's arm to stop the papercut on their finger from bothering them. I mean, yes, it works, but it's highly unsatisfactory and you're missing out on something pretty awesome.

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  • Daffiroth
    replied
    Pretend Infernals don't exist. That fixes quite a lot of things very nicely.

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  • Epimetheus
    replied
    Originally posted by Jen View Post
    Someone suggest every Yozi should have soak charms on the old forum and it spiraling into "Infernal can't be stronger than Solar!" madness.
    Honestly the issue is how appropriate it is. Some should have soak others should have dodge. Honestly, I think SHLIHN should be the only yozi with functional Parrying capabilities.

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  • Jen
    replied
    Someone suggest every Yozi should have soak charms on the old forum and it spiraling into "Infernal can't be stronger than Solar!" madness.

    Leave a comment:

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