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  • #16
    Bleh, I was hoping they could do more, if only by a higher Essence upgrade. Not sure about river dragon, don't they have fins instead of feet? And tyrant lizards are bipedal... might make good Wyverns, but not sure about standard Dragons.

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    • #17
      For a "4 legs+2 wings" style dragon, I'd go River Dragon + Giant Bat.
      For a "2 legs+2 wings" wyvern, I'd go Tyrant Lizard + Giant Bat again.

      As for whether River Dragons have fins instead of feet, I seem to remember description and art conflicting on that score.

      Also, for a MAXIMUM GRAPPLE build, how about Gorilla (Enormously powerful forearms and hands) + Crocodile (Inescapable bite strength and grip)?
      Last edited by Zealot_Vedas; 09-16-2018, 02:25 AM.


      Literally any gender pronoun is fine, don't worry about it in my case.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Zealot_Vedas View Post
        For a "4 legs+2 wings" style dragon, I'd go River Dragon + Giant Bat.
        For a "2 legs+2 wings" wyvern, I'd go Tyrant Lizard + Giant Bat again.

        As for whether River Dragons have fins instead of feet, I seem to remember description and art conflicting on that score.

        Also, for a MAXIMUM GRAPPLE build, how about Gorilla (Enormously powerful forearms and hands) + Crocodile (Inescapable bite strength and grip)?
        River Dragons, if like Saurosuchus, were like this:



        Which I really can't get out of my nightmares these days.

        There are also, confusingly, Sea Dragons from Savage Seas, which might have been more Mosasaur like:


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        • #19
          Originally posted by Zealot_Vedas View Post
          For a "4 legs+2 wings" style dragon, I'd go River Dragon + Giant Bat.
          For a "2 legs+2 wings" wyvern, I'd go Tyrant Lizard + Giant Bat again.

          As for whether River Dragons have fins instead of feet, I seem to remember description and art conflicting on that score.

          Also, for a MAXIMUM GRAPPLE build, how about Gorilla (Enormously powerful forearms and hands) + Crocodile (Inescapable bite strength and grip)?

          Death Roll and that Gorilla bite and oh my god these are terrifying.


          I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.

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          • #20
            I would think that pterosaurs would be a better source of dragon wings than bats, especially if you're combining it with another dinosaur.


            Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

            My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Epee102 View Post


              Death Roll and that Gorilla bite and oh my god these are terrifying.
              If we're just going special attacks and assuming Legendary size for everything (so unopposed control rolls), these are the specifically Grapple associated special attacks:

              Bear

              Crushing Bear Hug: When a bear deals 5+ damage with
              a withering claw attack, it may choose to forgo receiving
              any Initiative it would normally receive from the attack
              and instead make a reflexive grapple gambit against that
              enemy, with no need of an Initiative roll or cost to lock in
              the clinch. Each point of Initiative it would have gained
              instead adds one die to the control roll.

              Mauling Bite: When the bear makes a decisive savaging
              bite attack against a clinched enemy, it adds +4 to
              the raw damage of this attack. It can receive this bonus
              only once per grapple, unless reset by crashing the
              clinched enemy.

              Benthic Knifetooth

              Needle-Tooth Bite: Its basically Crushing Bear Hug but for a bite.

              Cat

              Batting Paws: Whenever the cat makes a decisive savaging
              attack against a clinched enemy, it uses its rear paws
              to bat at it and snap its neck, adding +5 to the raw damage
              of the attack.

              Leaping Pounce: If a cat moves into close range with an
              enemy of the same size or smaller and deals 5+ damage
              to it with a withering attack on the same turn, it may pay
              a point of Willpower to reflexively make a clinch attack
              against its prey.

              Dog

              Hold at Bay (Latent): After successfully impeding a foe’s
              movement with its harry attack, the canine may pay a
              point of Willpower to reflexively attempt to grapple them,
              converting extra successes on the attack roll to bonus dice
              on the control roll. The hound can only restrain or savage
              an enemy clinched this way—it cannot throw, slam, or
              drag them.

              Gorilla

              Mauling Bite: When the gorilla makes a decisive bite
              attack against a clinched enemy, it adds +4 to the raw
              damage of this attack. It can receive this bonus only once
              per clinch, unless reset by crashing the clinched enemy.

              Savaging Strength (Latent): A gorilla that has been trained
              for combat can put its strength to use in denying enemies
              escape. It may pay a point of Willpower to convert up to five
              dice on the control roll of a clinch to automatic successes.

              Great Cat

              Leaping Pounce: If a great cat moves into close range
              with an enemy of the same size or smaller and deals 5+
              damage to it with a withering attack on the same turn, it
              may pay a point of Willpower to reflexively make a grapple
              gambit against its prey.

              Ox Dragon

              Horn Toss (Latent): After dealing 3+ levels of damage to
              an enemy with a decisive horn attack, the ox-dragon may
              reflexively grapple and immediately slam him
              for additional damage, catching him in its horns and tossing
              him aside. The ox-dragon makes a control roll, and may
              then throw the enemy out to short range. Once per fight.

              River Dragon

              Clamp Down: A river dragon that deals 3+ levels of damage
              to a victim with a decisive bite attack may pay a point of
              Willpower to begin grappling them, making the opposed
              roll to establish control over the clinch. A successful clinch
              adds +1 to the base Initiative it resets to for every round
              of control it gains. Once per fight.

              Death Roll: A river dragon that has grappled an enemy
              and built up to Initiative 11+ may use the terrifying death
              roll, a decisive savaging attack that benefits from double
              7s as the dragon twists to forcibly rip off chunks of flesh.
              The death roll inflicts a crippling injury (p. 201) on its
              victim, but with the river dragon’s player choosing how
              severe an injury to inflict and forgoing the appropriate
              amount of damage. Once per fight.

              Tyrant Lizard

              Brutal Stomp: Whenever the tyrant lizard knocks an
              enemy prone with a smashing attack, it may pay a point
              of Willpower to reflexively make a grapple attack that
              cannot be parried. The tyrant lizard can only restrain the
              stomped enemy and cannot move without ending the
              clinch, but the stomped enemy takes six dice of lethal
              damage that ignore hardness for each round the tyrant
              lizard holds it. This special attack is not compatible with
              deadly thrash.

              Deadly Thrash: The tyrant lizard may shake a clinched
              enemy back and forth, shredding it with razor-sharp teeth
              before flinging it to the ground. The tyrant lizard may
              savage its clinched victim with a decisive bite attack before
              flinging it with a decisive throw or slam action. The tyrant
              lizard’s Initiative does not reset until it has completed
              both attacks, and it gains an additional point of Initiative
              for each round of control forfeited after the reset.

              Iron Jaws: The tyrant lizard does not take Defense penalties
              from grappling smaller enemies, and can reflexively
              take a drag action to move them whenever it moves,
              carrying them in its mouth (this does not apply to clinches
              initiated with brutal stomp). Additionally, being attacked
              only causes it to lose rounds of control over a
              clinch if that attack successfully damages the tyrant
              lizard.

              And of course the animal-agnostic Latent Ability:

              Crushing Embrace: Large predators that rely on clinching
              can be trained to make a decisive savaging attack upon
              grappling an enemy, with raw damage equal to the extra
              successes on control roll. This attack ignores hardness
              and does not reset the animal to base Initiative. Once
              per scene.

              Winners seem to be Tyrant Lizard, River Dragon and Gorilla (Deadly Thrash and Death Roll are basically fight enders depending on your Initiative), though the Benthic Knifetooth and the Bear have nice easy grapple initiators.

              Can animal shapes be Chimerized too, not just Spirit Shapes? If so, Benthic Knifetooth/Tyrant Lizard might be a real winner.
              Last edited by prototype00; 09-16-2018, 09:31 AM.

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              • #22
                I'd say that Creation has room for more animals that are mundane in its own premise even if they don't exist in reality. The eight-tailed mole hounds, for instance.

                If one is approaching a draconic form from the angle of a chimera, I see no reason why one cannot make up an oversized, predatory quadrupedal reptile.

                After all, we actually do have some. I'm not saying that one of your base animals needs to be an oversized crocodile or Komodo dragon, but that these things exist can inspire additions.

                I myself once imagined an aquatic predator that catches prey in webs (without just being some kind of underwater spider).


                I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                  I'd say that Creation has room for more animals that are mundane in its own premise even if they don't exist in reality. The eight-tailed mole hounds, for instance.
                  Especially since it's only a terrestrial circle working to create an animal such as this. Morals could be creating new variations. Then survival of the fittest takes care of the rest, I suspect

                  Edit: In fact I suspect that there would be a fair trade in exotic, created animals for wealthy mortals.
                  Last edited by armyofwhispers; 09-16-2018, 02:28 PM.


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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by armyofwhispers View Post
                    Especially since it's only a terrestrial circle working to create an animal such as this. Morals could be creating new variations. Then survival of the fittest takes care of the rest, I suspect

                    Edit: In fact I suspect that there would be a fair trade in exotic, created animals for wealthy mortals.
                    Letting things like that function as valid Lunar spirit shapes seems like it opens up a whole can of worms.

                    Maybe there are edge cases in which the creature is not too outlandish and has independently thrived for some time, but I imagine it's generally best avoided.


                    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                    Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                      I would think that pterosaurs would be a better source of dragon wings than bats, especially if you're combining it with another dinosaur.
                      It would probably be better to get the pterosaur's flying body and get stronger jaws with teeth courtesy of their distant fellow ornithodire. That way, everything still does well in the air, and in the case of pterosaurs, you want to keep that spectacular flight capability (estimated to be capable endurance flight at a speed of up to 120 kph for hours at a time).

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                      • #26
                        For my own part, making a chimera with pterodactyl and squid/octopus, starting a cult, Cthulhuing it up.


                        I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.

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                        • #27
                          It occurs to me that not all chimeric mutations need to be obvious.

                          I could start with a cat totem and blend in the Natural Immunity, Pain Tolerance, and Boundless Endurance of a shark.


                          Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                            I would think that pterosaurs would be a better source of dragon wings than bats, especially if you're combining it with another dinosaur.
                            Don't be afraid to dream a little bigger.


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                            • #29
                              The big problem with using Earth vertebrates to try to make a quadrupedal-plus-wings dragon is the lack of six-limbed Earth vertebrates. Sure, you can ignore that and declare that the chimera of your two four-limbed creatures is a six-limbed creature, and never you mind, but it's inelegant.

                              Instead, go dinosaur-Meganeura.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
                                I honestly have to wonder how that creature ever flew. Based on that article that animal is the size and weight of a small single engine airplane, so how did it manage to do anything?


                                ....

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